Hello, new...

[Skinfaxi]

Hi,
I am trying to start a trimming business, to pay for shoeing school at either Heartland, or Sureshod(??), in Missouri, or Midwest in Macomb IL(I've heard some not nice things about the place though.) I happen to live in an area that has few farriers, some with bad reps(unreliable mostly), and all the good ones are full up. It also seems that many backyard horses around here are treated like cattle, they are fine generally, but hoof care does get neglected. One lady I trim for says she has them trimmed twice a year! I'm trying to talk her into a quarterly schedual :) (chuckles) I have been trimming mine for a few years and feel qualified enough to keep length, angle, flares, frogs, bars and balance quite proper for those barefoot horses that would ordinarily have no or little hoof care. I am at the moment not making much money at all. I try to be inexpensive to coax those who don't have much to spare. I just was wondering what the group thinks of my plan to pay for school, what they think of the schools I am concidering, and if anyone knows of alternative funding options for a girl working 40 for min-wage with bills to pay. I feel that the best thing to do right now is go to school, so that Maybe! one of the local farriers will have incentive to mentor me. Thanks so much.

[SlowShoe]

Hey it definatly cant hurt.The expeiance should give you a leg up in school. I dont know how much money you'll be making,I assume 30-35 per trim depending on your area. Give it a go! Plus you'll want that muscle memmory to develope!

[Phil Armitage]

There is no easy answers. You have to make a name for yourself. Why charge less than the next guy, charge what the others are chargeing. You obviously can recognize poor work and beleive you can provide a better service. I would go to school, apprentice, take on what you can, work part time and if your work is good and your dependable and can be trusted your buisness will grow. Start with believeing in yourself and anything worth haveing is worth working hard for. Good luck and best wishes.

[Bill Adams]

If your not making money trimming, then trimming to save for school won't work. If you can do the trimming then why discount yourself? Why dose someone need to have "help" financialy with a horse, a major luctury item. If you want to help people go to the huricane area.
Get a copy of the book "Six Figure Shoeing" by doug Buttler, he says it much better than I do and it lays out the foundation nesissary for a good business.
My $0.02,
Bill

[Skinfaxi]

Oh, I just ment that I am not making much right Now, but I have literally Just started. I was just worried that doing any kind of work to a horses feet without being officially certified, though not a crime, may be a serious faux pas. Thanks SOOO much for easing my mind.
A little back ground on me since I will brobably be around bugging everyone for bits of brain. I was slated to attend horseshoing scool at Midwest right out of highschool, but I took a year off....now 5 years later I am ready to try again,lol. I think I may have to loose my ideas about helping poor horse owners/neglected local horses. Alot of people just stick them in the back pasture and put the grandkids on once in a while...and that's it. I suppose that's not my problem...
I think that the general fee for a trim around here is about 20-25, I was going to run 15 for within 10 miles, 20 for everyone else. But if it doesn't pay I'll raise it. Also since I know I will be seeing some neglect, and tough horses, and I will charge more. Maybe 50 per hour training fee for very fussy horses. 20 for badly neglected feet. Extra 10 if I have to bring a handler with me. I was wondering how you guys handle know it all owners who clearly know nothing? Also which school would you recomend, has anyone heard anything about Shurshod??
Thanks

[Douglas Pani]

From your choices of schools I take it your in Missouri? What part? Where do you plan to trim? Please do not charge that much less than everyone just to get busniess. You will get the bad of the bad and then you wont be able to go to school untill the broken bones heal! People will take advantage of you. I work in the Mid-Mo area let me know if I can help!

Doug

[John Barney]

Doug,
Where in Mid-Mo? I am around Warrensburg(Leeton). Doe you hot shoe? I'm looking for some pointers. Thanks

JB

[Douglas Pani]

John,
I shoe around Columbia and surrounding area. I hot fit 75% of my horses. Sometimes its just not a good idea to hot fit ALL horses, those that hotfit Im sure know what Im talking about! I do have to make myself do it sometimes, I get into a rut where all I want to do is shoe the horse and move on to get to the end of the day. But I catch myself doing that and get back to the busniess at hand, helping the horse. And it is true, the more you hot fit the better you get, and faster you get, so it really dosent take that much more time. Let me know if I can help, or point you in a direction of someone who can near your area. If you e-mail me I can answer questions or give you my number so you can call.

Doug

[Wannabeee]

My daddy use to say( hehe i like saying that, at this point it is a reapect thing for the retired old guy), Hot shoeing is never worth going to the hospitial, and i do hot shoe most(except when using alum) unless it is too scasry dangerous, cause as i get older im slower moving but lots more chicken.Scott

[Bill Adams]

Ok,
I'm ready for some fun, splain to me why I shouldn't hot shoe.

Always shoe hot,
Bill

[Skinfaxi]

I live in Illinois. Bond/Fayette Co. area. I am trying to work Effingham to Highland to Hillsboro to maybe Breese/Carlyle. Maybe further/maybe closer to Vandalia where I live. I imagine I'll get alot of junk, but I expect that and I will Not kill myself to make 20 bucks. I was going to start my pricing at 25, and offer $5 discounts for short trips, good horses, good owners, and good working conditions. Discounts would not lower the price below 15. I was planning on charging $45 per visit to train horses to stand, 10 bucks to teach owners to train. Charging $15 per hour, after the first 30 minutes, for very bad feet. I would Require horses to stand or be trained to. A respected farrier I have heard of in the area charges 25 a trim. or 20 with a 5 dollar trip fee. Something like that. I have no reputaion and have to get people to call me. I really don't want to be cheap for the sake of it, I want to someday be hired for quality work and get paid well for it. Right now though what other way(besides riding with someone) could I drum up business? I don't really talk to farriers aroungd here. I'd love to ride a few times a month with someone if I knew someone to go with. Brad Mason doesn't do it full time, and the other farrier I refered to lives too far away. Should my base be 30 and my minimum 20? Should I charge higher extra fees or fewer discounts. What do you think??

[Wannabeee]

Bill i shoe everything hot( i dont heat Alum shoes cause it softens them) and i do believe cold shoeing is needed when the horse breaks thing(crossties ,people, and stuff) when i burn the shoes,of course i still shape hot and look when hot just no smoke( i do try to slowly to add smoke, light burn, when a holder is around to help),then i make adjustment cold when i get scared to burn them. Scott

[Dave Purves]

Ok,
I'm ready for some fun, splain to me why I shouldn't hot shoe.

Always shoe hot,
Bill

Cause the coffin bone is sticking out of the bottom of the horses foot.

Cause your wife just bought new furniture, and last night you had to sleep on the couch cause you came in after a long day of hot fitting 24 shoes, and forgot you smelled like burnt hoof, and sat down in the new recliner. And now the new recliner smells like the inside of your truck.

Cause the owner is adimately asking you not too, cause the last Jacka$$ that hot fit the horse also trimmed it too close and burnt the **** out of the poor horses foot, so now when the sizzle comes the horse jumps up, back and literally has it's front feet in the hay loft.

Cause your lazy.

Cause you don't own a forge.

Cause you don't own an anvil.

Cause you believe the most important tool in your box is your rasp, after all, it makes the shoe fit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cause you're afraid of fire.

Cause you tried once and the slag came off the shoe and burnt your hand and it was too much for you to bear.

Cause your wife makes $3,000,000 a year and you just shoe for the "fun of it".

Cause you've actually burnt down a clients barn when the wind blew some hay near the forge.

Cause you shoe 25 horses a day, and production would suffer, never mind the quality.

Cause you would rather bang the clips over, than fit them into the wall.

Cause your great grandpa didn't hot fit.

Cause your grandpa didn't hot fit.

Cause your dad, didn't hot fit.

I'll stop here, but I'm sure someone can think of some more reasons :D

Dave

[Bill Adams]

Scott,
Sounds like you and I are on the same page. There are a lot of them that I have to go slow with, but I tell the owner that they used to train horses to run full tilt toward firing cannon while firing a gun from their back, so I think we can get ol' Pokie to stand for the smoke.

Dave,
You bring up some very good points. I think that some other reasons may be;
cause these guys that hotshoe are just showing off
cause they go to all these clinics and contests and stuff
cause they have to cause they charge so much
cause they can't even get a foot flat with a rasp.

to site a few,
Bill

[SlowShoe]

while firing a gun from their back

You can shoot a gun off of ANY horse...

...its wether you can reload or not.

=]

[Greg Thomas]

You can shoot a gun off of ANY horse...

...its wether you can reload or not.

=]


Pretty good-never heard that before.

Greg

[Gary_Miller]

You can shoot a gun off of ANY horse...

...its wether you can reload or not.

=]
Its not wether you can reload or not!

Its where you do the reloading.

On the horse still going into battle.

Or on the ground while you watch your horse run in the opisite direction.

[SlowShoe]

Its not wether you can reload or not!

Its where you do the reloading.

On the horse still going into battle.

Or on the ground while you watch your horse run in the opisite direction.

Im hopeing if I'm going into battle I would have answered that question allready =]

[Derin Foor]

Skinfaxi,

....back to your original question(s)......

once you develop the reputation for being the highest priced farrier in the area and can back that up with exceptional work, the good horse owners will seek you out and pay whatever it takes to get you....don't develop a huge customer base of lousy horseowners....it will come back to bite you eventually and make it difficult to bring your rates up where they should be

the truly good horse owners are often scared off by too low of a price than they are of high prices for farrier work.......for some it's a matter of pride as they boast to their friends about having the most expensive farrier in the area :D

hope that helps,

Derin

[Skinfaxi]

Thanks,
I understand that concept. I agree with it as well. Besides if I take the time to do a good job(and I like to think I do) how could someone who doesn't care much for their horse appreciate it? In fact(just to vent) I trimmed 2 horses for free for a friend once, and was going to come out again FOR FREE. I never have because she doesn't have the Time! Sheesh! Plus they wouldn't know a good trim from a bad one if it kicked them. I contacted a local AFA member to ask if I could tag along a few times a month. He said since he has only been working for a couple years he didn't feel qualified to train me, but might call me once or twice on a slow day to see what a full days work is like before I spend money on schooling. We talked for like a half hour and he was very nice. I noted the flat out lack of farriers, and that many that you do find are beer shoers who don't know what an appointment book is for. The subject of local business came up and he said that where we live can be a tougher spot than some. Northern IL has lots of barns and people treat their horses much differently than here. Southern IL has more working horses, trail riders and the like that need proper hoof care. Here in the middle though they are so often lawn ornaments...the owners just don't even think about it. There are responsible owners too, barrel racers, trail and the like, but still...Any way, right now I just want to get some phone calls, I don't care who(within reason). The way I have my fees set up, the most trims will be $20-35 which is about average.

[Derin Foor]

[QUOTE=Skinfaxi] Northern IL has lots of barns and people treat their horses much differently than here. Southern IL has more working horses, trail riders and the like that need proper hoof care. Here in the middle though they are so often lawn ornaments...the owners just don't even think about it. There are responsible owners too, barrel racers, trail and the like, but still...QUOTE]

Dont believe for a minute that you cant make a good living trimming and shoeing lawn ornaments....they need proper hoofcare just like the ones that are ridden 5 days a week.......most people cant think 4-6 weeks ahead and wont put forth the effort to call you until the feet are in really bad shape so make it easy for them and set up the next appointment before you leave.....that way they know when to expect you, you know you have income for that day/week/month/year and you can coordinate stops to be more efficient

work smarter, not harder

Derin