To cut or not to cut the tendon?

[Mitch Sylte]

I have a horse that has founder. There is rotation of the coffin bone in both front hooves and one of the bones has started to drop. We have had an elevated shoe on her for 4 days and she has shown slight improvement. As the next step my vet has offered the option of Rock and Roll shoes or to cut the tendon that connects to the coffin bone. I would love to be able to do mild riding with her again. Cutting the tendon would leave little chance of this. I also want to do what is best for my horse. What should I do?

Mitch

[caballus]

My experiences have been that getting the hooves back to as close as possible to their natural state (barefoot and trimmed properly), when combined with movement and natural diet, will heal the hooves and depending upon the severity of the rotation and or sinking, will allow the horse to return to soundness. I have a fair number of foundered horses in my care right now (I was called in after traditional care failed to improve the hooves and in some cases, exacerbated the condition) who are well into full recovery after just 3 or 4 months of treatment. Of course, it depends upon the dedication to the hoofcare needed and extra vigilance of the husbandry. Before going to such an extreme and irreversible treatment as cutting the tendon, why not give your horse the chance to be sound again naturally? Pull the shoes, trim the hooves up correctly and turn the horse out to move baefoot 24/7 on scrubby or dry lot. Feed low carb/low sugar diet (no sweetfeed or processed grains) with free choice hay round the clock, a superior vitamin and mineral supplement and ensure the horse gets plenty of movement! Movement, beyond any human care, is the strongest healer there is - that and the amazing, natural capabilities of the hooves to heal themselves when given the chance.

--Gwen

[Roy Amaral CJF]

Not enough information to tell you what you should do.

Wedges alone tend to make horses that would rotate sink instead.

The deep flexor tenotomy is a usefull procedure for salvaging some of the really severe cases. Very often it it done too late for the best results.

While Gwen's plan for trimming, restricted diet and turnout on a dry lot works great for many of the insulin resistant types is won't help a wide variety of others. It might increase their suffering greatly.

What caused your horse to founder? Has tht cause been resolved?

[caballus]

Why would the change in diet be dangerous for other than insulin resistant horses? Horse are not designed to eat lots of sugars and concentrated feeds. They are fully designed to subsist on forage with smidgens of grains here and there as they can find it, lots of varied vegetation, weeds and herbs, trees, shrubs, scrub grasses, etc. Forage and more forage. I did not say withhold grain entirely ... please re-read what I wrote. I said to feed a low carb/low sugar diet. No sweetfeed and no processed feeds. Whole grains, used as a supplement to the free choice hay, is beneficial for any horse. (except those with limited capacity for chewing). If more calories are needed to maintain weight then a fat source would be added such as soy fat, rice bran, vegetable oil or other. Most horses today don't even need grain if they get free choice hay and vitamins/minerals. Grain is needed for extra energy for hard working horses. There are few of those in this country. The change in diet would also be beneficial for helping to possible repeat or worsening of the founder. Most laminitis and subsequent founders are directly related to feeds.

Please read what I write and explain why you are debating it. Thanks.

[Mitch Sylte]

Thanks for responding so quick! I can post the exact measurement of rotation tomorrow to give more information. In the hoof where the coffin bone has started to sink it is compromising the blood flow. So we are battling that. She has shown some improvement from the wedge shoes.
As for the cause I believe spring grass was probably it. The farrier noticed she was growing faster than normal, which I now realize is a warning sign of laminitis. He just mentioned she would need to be trimmed more often and never cautioned of laminitis. Since he didn't seem concerned I didn't think much of it myself. Then just a month or so ago she wasn't putting pressure on her front hoof so I ran her to the vet. She had an abscess. When she showed very slow improvement after treating the abscess I took her back to the vet. They did x-rays and found the rotation in both hooves and sinking in one. Cushing's has also been brought up, but she is not showing signs of the disease. She is only 6 years old. I have read that Cushing's usually shows up in older horses. She does not have access to sweet feed or grain. She is not worked hard or on hard surfaces so it wouldn't be cold water after exercise or road founder. I thought it might have developed due to bearing all her weight on the one hoof because of the abscess in the other, but then that doesn't explain why it is in both hooves. I hope some of this information helps.

Mitch

[Ronald Aalders]

Hi Mitch,

A DDFT tenotomy frees the coffin bone from the pull of the DDFT. In my experience the main reason for rotation. (Although there is controversy on this subject.) Cutting the DDFT allows for much needed sole growth. But it's not the only way to provide solegrowth. Like your vet suggested Rock 'n Roll shoes (if he means banana shoes) do wonders too.

The most secure way to diagnose a sinker is to measure sinking on subsequent X rays, not just one. Unless it's a really obvious case a beginning sinker is not as easy to detect as everybody seems to think. Several horses have some distance between the coronary band and the extensor process for other reasons than a sinking coffin bone. (A distorted digital cushion for one)

Further if you want to consider a tenotomy be sure to discuss all details very well with your vet. Although it's been done before numerous times and simple riding after the tendon is healed is an option, you should realize a tenotomy is a last resort. It's a salvage procedure. Lots of things can happen and all may affect the outcome.

The last point I'ld like to make before I leave you to the barefooters is that a tenotomy is in my opinion not likely to do the horse any good if you have a well established sinker case on your hands.

Good luck Mitch,


Ronald Aalders

[Roy Amaral CJF]

Why would the change in diet be dangerous for other than insulin resistant horses?


It probably wouldn't.

Barefooting a horse with a prolapsed sole or it's coffin bone hanging out would definitly not improve it chances of survival.

[caballus]

I don't know about that .... I have 2 in my care right now who penetrated both fronts. Both are just about 100% recovered; one after 9 months and the other after just 8 months. Seemed to work well enough for them. In fact, it wasn't until I did pull the shoes that healing was able to begin. I was called in as a "last resort" for both of these mares, as I am for many of the pathological horses presently in my care.

--gwen

[Tricia Wynn]

All I can add is that we had a DDFT 2 yrs ago. My boy is now 26 or maybe 27. We are able to do light riding. We used banana shoes for about a year and are barefoot now. Pesonally I prefer the shoes (sorry Gwen) but hubby wants barefoot. The banana shoes are a bit slippery but he did fine in them

I am not telling you should get a tenotmy - they are expensive and follow up is critical. All I am saying is that light riding is not necessairly ruled out. Also as Ronald pointed out, I dont believe its a procedure for sinkers.

There is a yahoo cushings site with tons of info.

Good luck!
Tricia

[caballus]

Hi Tricia! Please, do not apologize to me for your preferences! :) Everyone has the right to his or her own and I fully respect that. I just merely try to give options and tell what has worked for me, my horses and my clients' horses. It may be that someone else can benefit from the "alternative" information that I share and if so, then that's awesome! But don't ever feel you need to apologize for the way you feel about something. Feelings are not right or wrong. Preferences are not right or wrong. Opinions are not right or wrong. They are what they are ... and should be respectfully considered.

*S* --Gwen

[Roy Amaral CJF]

The banana shoes are a bit slippery

:D LMAO

Gwen- instead of hijacking this thread any further why don't you post a new one with a case study (pictures, rads, history.....). :)

[caballus]

Didn't realize I was "highjacking" the thread ... why do you say that?

At any rate. www.barefoottrim.com has a couple of case histories. Feel free to peruse.

[Roy Amaral CJF]

The thread started with a question about the usefullness of a deep flexor tenotomy. This format is a lot easier to deal with if we try to keep on topic. I wasn't picking on you.

I see no coffin bones peeking out at me on your site. :confused:

[calshoer]

Since Gwen frequently directs folks looking for shoeing advice to the barefoot sites , I think we should all take her up on it and *everyone* here should go to her site and look at the case study "Cammie" ....before, and afters..
Also I did not see the cases who had penetrated ,if you have some I sure would like to see them especially videos of their present soundness .
I saw a brief video of a horse named Val trotting on soft grass who was supposed to be sound but according to MY definition of sound still had a ways to go.
I'ld like to see her trot on hard dirt ...why only the soft grass in the video? And is there a video of Cammie so we can see how sound she is?
Sure like to see that too.
Patty

[Ronald Aalders]

What I love most about this site is how we all manage to get off topic in just a few threads. Don't try to change that Roy, it's what makes us unique!

What I worry about when barefooters (but not only barefooters!) claim they have found a cure is that they never learned what I learned from a WP trainer years ago, that 'some horses are good in spite of us'.

Years ago I worked on laminitic horses way different from what I'm doing now. I 'fixed' a few, some I did not fix. Now almost 20 years later my approach is not just way different, it's a whole other ballgame! But still I 'fix' horses and some the vets and I can not help. The only difference is the level of damage caused by laminitis nowadays. What I'm working on now I would not dare touch 20 years ago.

So what happened in those years is that now we often know why a horse does not respond. While in the past things were left to chance. That's exactly what barefooters do in their approach to laminitis. They leave things to chance. Some make it, some don't. And even if you turn out to be lucky, like Gwen states she is, this should not give you grounds to try and convince others to do the same thing, leave recovery of a laminitic horse to mere chance. Thát's what ****es me of in this barefoot approach. Let's face it I don't care if people want their horses shod or not. I think no shoer cares. I shoe horses, some are succesfull (probably in spite of me). I don't have any barn where people like Gwen would not be kicked out if she tried to convince them of the assets of barefooting a horse. In fact I don't even know any such barns, but I know they're around. Not on the competetive level I get to work though.


Ronald Aalders

[Rick Burten]

Ron,

Hasn't Jaye summed it up the best in his signature line: "Horses will go lame because of us and horses will go lame inspite of us..."

to which I might only add, the converse is then also a trueism"

"Horses will be sound because of us and horses will be sound inspite of us".