Crippled Lame Overnite after Shoeing Yesterday...Why?

[Azrael2005]

I had a new farrier out to do my horses hind feet yesterday because my trainer's farrier only did his fronts during the week for some reason and he was due to be shod all around. And he has been forging very badly EVERY stride so I thought it was because his hind feet were so long. Anyway, guy comes out, puts a smaller shoe (not in width, just length) on behind because he said the shoes that were on the hind were extending out to farr beyond the heel and making him sore in the stifle area. He said he wasn't changing the angles or geometry drasticly just a different shoe size.

OK WHY was he ok yesterday before shoeing and now this morning I get a call from the barn that he is CRIPPLED and they can't even tell where the lameness is coming from....AT THE WALK!!! No swelling or heat that they can see or feel. What the????????? What would cause this??? I even gave him 2 grams of bute yesterday afternoon because he is so sensitive and I didn't want to take a chance since it was a different farrier. He has been in his stall since yesterday afternoon when I left him.

Has anyone ever had this experience?? I have never had a horse ever be lame after shoeing!!!

[Rick Burten]

Since only the hind end was worked on, it is reasonable to assume that the problem has something to do with what was or was not done to the rear.

I would immediately call the attending farrier and get him back out there. You should insist that because your horse is in so much obvious discomfort, that he comes out today.

I would suggest that you cold hose the legs/hooves and give him an area where he is free to move about as he feels able. Make sure the paddock is level and has no rocks or other environmental hazzards. I'd put out some hay in differnet locations, along with plenty of clean water.

Regardless of what this farrier told you, changing the size of the shoes does affect the horse. As well, to get a smaller shoe on the foot, those feet had to have been trimmed and may have been trimmed to short and then the smaller shoe applied without sufficient sole pressure relief.

As for your horse being sore in the stifles, how did the new farrier arrive at this conclusion? Or, is he also a veterinarian with demonstrable skill in evaluating sublte lameness issues?

[Phil Armitage]

I would call your Trainers farrier and find out why he did not do the hind feet. He may have seen something wrong and did not want to exasperate an existing problem. Seems to me that is would have been a better idea if you had called him/her in the first place before you called a new farrier to do the hind shoes. The new farrier would not know if something was wrong, he/she may not be familiar with your horse and assumed this was a simple task of just putting on hind shoes.

Hopefully all is well.

[Azrael2005]

I would think if there was a problem with the hind feet, I would have been told or the trainer would have been told. The trainer is aware that I called another farrier. The trainer's farrier came out because I was unhappy with the way he did his front feet after the last shoeing and had xrays taken to show him why. So he came out and only did the front because that is all he had time for. (Long story----see the club foot thread in that forum)

I told the man his toes were too long and he was forging badly. I said his hind feet were due to be done but PLEASE do not make any drastic changes. Whatever he thinks needed to be done would need to be done over time for this horse. As for the smaller shoe, he wasn't trimmed differently, it was the same diameter/width it just was not as long so it did not give the hoof a "trailer."

No the farrier is not a vet. I don't know who to believe or trust anymore. I just want my horse to be sound and happy. No matter what a vet says every farrier I have ever used doesn't seem to care because they think vets spend 5 minutes in vet school on the horse's foot.

[Ronald Aalders]

As a shoer that works with vets a lot of times I can tell you that vets often are just as poor communicators as shoers are.

This should not get you squeezed in between though. You can do a lot yourself in matters like these. Make some phone calls as suggested by previous posters. Call the trainer, call the previous shoer and call the shoer that shod the hinds. Get the info you need but be patient and considerate. Keep your head, its their job your discussing here. Some get touchy when its their work thats being discussed. You should understand that, but you can ask them to be professional about it all.

Just to give you an idea, I'm not too happy myself when my work is discussed. It's always a little ackward, because this job is very hard and difficult. Its not simple 101 mechanics. A lot of things can go wrong where neither a shoer nor the vet nor the owner can do anything about. Although I think I can say I'm a pretty succesfull shoer (or lucky? :rolleyes: ) I've seen horses come back after 6 weeks every now and then that did not look as nice as I want them to. Did I mess up on those? I don't know maybe so, maybe the horses are sore, maybe other things happened, fact remains that even when you are an experienced shoer (sometimes I really think I've seen and heard it all) things go wrong. Sometimes even without me noticing it.

So if you keep your head and if necessary remind others involved this is not a lynching party but an attempt to come up with a solution for your horse, you should come a long way.



Ronald Aalders

[Phil Armitage]

Excellent point Ron, I am currently working with an owner and 2 Vets on a problem. I am amazed how smooth the process is going. This is because of the calmness and professionalism on the owners part. This particular owner has gained a tremendous amount of respect and we are all working together to figure her horse out. Many long hours and hard work and also trying to keep it logical and affordable.

[J.H. shoeing]

Why did you give the horse 2 gr. of bute if he was not sore?? What do you mean by the horse being so sensitive??

Sounds like there may be some things going on with this horse other than he was just due to be shod and they did not get the hinds done.

Just my opinion/observation.
Jeff

[mae_7845]

yeah u got to be careful who u choose in a farrier!!!
price really shouldnt be a option on how much u pay.
u need to go by exsperience an how long it takes them to do your horse.
an how they handle your horse too.ive used this one farrier in my area an i dont suggest him to anyone.im from northern indiana".ive used this farrier twice now 1st time he was slow like a turtle took him 2 hrs to do my mare
but he did a good job an hes so called certified.yesterday he came to do her again i was very very mad almost threw him outta my barn.
my horse was being messed with by him for 3 hrs straight then why wouldnt she wanna hold still duh!!!well she was gettin really mad at hime tried 2 bite him.then he said well im gonna put her in a sling belt an keep her leg up an shoe her that way.i told him i wouldnt cuz she will fight with u more i know my horse.he wouldnt listen an he had 6 nails in 3 hoofs an in the 1 hoof he had 8 nails ****py job if u ask me.i will never use him again!!!! in my area its hard to find a good certified farrier.but i found one lastnight on the net here.hes had the proper schooling an he didnt go to no seminar classes like this other 1 went too.an this farrier was scared my horse was gonna kick him both times,lmao.if a horse is gonna kick u it dont matter what your doing.
brush their tail u just might be kicked.but u cant think bout things like that if u got horses or your gonna be around them.for this farrier i think he needs to give it up cuz he dont know what hes doing.if someone else see my post an your from northeast indiana lookin for a farrier.hopefully u see this an that i can respond right away to it.so u dont go to him like i did.
*DOES ANYONE KNOW IF HORSE FARRIERS HAVE A BETTER BUSINESS FROM STATE TO STATE??? cuz if there is i would like to report this soooooo called farrier from hell!!!

[Ronald Aalders]

Well thank you for sharing this with us Mae 7845...............



Ronald Aalders

[calshoer]

Mae, If a farrier thinks a horse is going to kick him, them maybe your horse IS the kind that threatens to kick (and bite it sounds like) and there is no excuse for that. it is up to YOU to train your horse to stand quietly no matter who is under or around them.
The farrier SHOULD think twice about doing a horse that appearts to want to kick because one kick could ruin his career or kill him NO horse should want kick, whether it is brushng his tail, grooming hisd rear end ,shoeing him or whatever. If your horse is taking two to three hours to get shod and the farrier says he might kick, you might need to consider that the real problem may be your horse.
Patty

[Gary_Miller]

yeah u got to be careful who u choose in a farrier!!!
price really shouldnt be a option on how much u pay.
u need to go by exsperience an how long it takes them to do your horse.
an how they handle your horse too.ive used this one farrier in my area an i dont suggest him to anyone.im from northern indiana".ive used this farrier twice now 1st time he was slow like a turtle took him 2 hrs to do my mare
but he did a good job an hes so called certified.yesterday he came to do her again i was very very mad almost threw him outta my barn.
my horse was being messed with by him for 3 hrs straight then why wouldnt she wanna hold still duh!!!well she was gettin really mad at hime tried 2 bite him.then he said well im gonna put her in a sling belt an keep her leg up an shoe her that way.i told him i wouldnt cuz she will fight with u more i know my horse.he wouldnt listen an he had 6 nails in 3 hoofs an in the 1 hoof he had 8 nails ****py job if u ask me.i will never use him again!!!! in my area its hard to find a good certified farrier.but i found one lastnight on the net here.hes had the proper schooling an he didnt go to no seminar classes like this other 1 went too.an this farrier was scared my horse was gonna kick him both times,lmao.if a horse is gonna kick u it dont matter what your doing.
brush their tail u just might be kicked.but u cant think bout things like that if u got horses or your gonna be around them.for this farrier i think he needs to give it up cuz he dont know what hes doing.if someone else see my post an your from northeast indiana lookin for a farrier.hopefully u see this an that i can respond right away to it.so u dont go to him like i did.
*DOES ANYONE KNOW IF HORSE FARRIERS HAVE A BETTER BUSINESS FROM STATE TO STATE??? cuz if there is i would like to report this soooooo called farrier from hell!!!

Whats all this got to do with the crippled horse.

I sure wish people would post in the proper places and not mess up the dialoge.

Gary

[FighterSpirit]

Roflma
:D
(sorry I had to say it, this post cracked me up)

[mae_7845]

cal,
my horse dont kick he was afraid she was gonna kick.hes scared of horses
thats why i said i think he needs 2 give up his job.an she does get handled well&corrected right when shes bad.

[mae_7845]

i forgot to put this in my post.my horse did have a amish farrier before i had this guy trimming & shoeing her.the amish guy trimmed her 2 short at times.but she held still for him & he even pulled on her tail an she didnt act like she wanted 2 kick.he can trim&shoe a horse less in a hr-a hr.(2 or 3 hrs is 2 long for 1 horse so its not my horse problem. i know ive made the right choice by finding another farrier

[Red Amor]

Wull shee dang Elly may

Id recon your have trouble finding Farriers good enough to take you and your horse on once theyve read your post

Id give you the Sorbent treatment for sure
n
mind how ya go now ya hear:)

[Rick Burten]

[QUOTE=mae_7845]>my horse did have a amish farrier before i had this guy trimming & shoeing her.

She is in my prayers.

the amish guy trimmed her 2 short at times.

Imagine that. Who'd a thunkit?

>but she held still for him & he even pulled on her tail an she didnt act like she wanted 2 kick.

Your point being?

>he can trim&shoe a horse less in a hr-a hr.(2 or 3 hrs is 2 long for 1 horse so its not my horse problem.

2-3 hours is not necessarily too long for any horse to stand whether it is for the vet, the farrier, or the Easter Bunny. Trimming and shoeing a horse in less than an hour may work for some or all the horses in any given farrier's practice. Or, it may take considerably longer depending on exigent cir***stances. Regardless of the length of time, no horse should, absent physical discomfort or pain, ever offer to kick or bite anyone. Just because your horse may have been cranky, is no reason to point the finger of blame at the farrier. Absent any evidence of wrongdoing, that fickle finger is pointing at the person or persons incharger of her care and training.

>i know ive made the right choice by finding another farrier

It sounds as though you may be running out of options.

As Red would say, "Mind how you go...."

As a personal favor, would you please type in normal English. My teenage daughter uses much the same style in her text messaging and it is not only annoying to read, but also causes us(the adults, or at least , this adult) to take much less seriously, the writer.