Frog issues

[Dressage4ever]

An Arabian stallion, now barefoot, was recently trimmed. The farrier seemed to entirley neglect shaving the inside and frog area. The frog is trying to shed itself but hanging on with soft layers that seem more like a tissue. :( The area is a dark brown almost black green. :eek: Mild thrush is at hand. He limps a bit when bearing weight, and is in obvious discomfort doing so, and therefor isn't being ridden til further advancment regarding this problem. In all my experience I have always seen the inside hoof area peared out a little as well as the frog at times to accomidate the overall trim of the hoof. :confused: I think the farrier lacks care. Any advice? What to do to ensure this doesn't render him lame. Also the frog is about flush level with the outer rim, and that doesnt seem appropriate being the frog has built up layers that are soft almost disguising the entire frog itself. The front feet are worse than the rear.

[cynthia-jay]

Frog pressure when to much can cause a mild lameness as you describe.
Also if the heels are not even among other improper trimming/shoeing.
I would find a compentant Farrier and have this horse looked at and possibly re-trimmed/shod if the situation calls for it and address the thrush issue which can be also caused from imbalance as well as other contributing factors.
best of luck.
as always.
Jay

[calshoer]

Also the post mentions that the horse is "now barefoot".
More information is needed.
Does this mean the shoes were just removed at this trim? If so the horse may just need time to toughen the feet, or may need shoes to be comforatble in his particular environment. Sometimes in certain situations removing shoes is not in the horses best interest.
On the other hand, If the foot was already barefoot for a long time and he was sound that way and just got sore with THIS trim, then one of a couple of things could have happened. If the frog was left much taller than the rest of the foot it certainly could create too much pressure. Or the farrier may have removed too much of the rest of the foot, shortening the hoofwall or paring the sole to much.
There is nothing wrong with leaving some dead layers of foot including frog in a barefoot situation, especially when the shoes are first pulled. Obvious loose flaps are normally removed but the sole and frog need not be pared clean. That stuff will flake off when it needs to as long as the horse is getting plenty of exercise.
In cases where I am removing shoes the first time I usually leave ALL the dead cruddy stuff on the bottom for a couple of weeks for protection during the transition period, then come bck and LIGHTLY clean up the loose stuff.
If the frog is thrushy, it is usually more an indiation of lack of exercise (how much turn out? Too much stabling? ) or a lack of frog function due to any number of things related to hoof balance,heel trimming or shoeing style. I generally do not see thrush in pastured horses, even when they are in mud all winter and have not been trimmed in a while. It is only in the stabled horses (immaculatley clean stables too) that I see thrush.
Patty

[wundahoss]

You can visit www.barefoothorse.com to get some basic education on what a healthy hoof looks like and also of how to trim a previously shod horse to go barefoot with minimal transition discomfort.

wundahoss

[Red Amor]

another reason horses get thrush and one of the main reasons is because of the lack of maintainance there sometimes slack owners give to the hooves
just cleaning the hooves out regularly and treating with a hoof preperation top and bottom is a lovely favour to do the horse

you may say wild horses dont get this , but where not talking about wild horses are we

maybe the Farrier didnt do their work thourghly but the owner has as much duity of care to adhere to as well
just my thoughts , Im not haveing a go at anyone ;)

[Red Amor]

you can also find so very much wonderfull information and photos and tecinal data right on this site ;)

[smitty88]

how many of you dress the frog i mean a complete shave
how many just take the taty parts off
how many just run your knife down the sides and leave it


what is your view on this
years ago we where taught to take the tatty bits off


and leave the frog alone if it dident need touching

[Forgewizard]

I approach frog care on an individual basis. Some I leave alone, some get just a little paring, some get really cleaned up.

If the frog is really shaggy, pocked and has wrinkles and creases in it, then I cut off all the loose flaps and chase the creases. Often this chasing reveals deep pockets of bacterial activity that have undermined the frog.

It can be absolutely horrifying sometimes to see ho badly undermined a frog has become in these cases. Yes, the newly exposed tissue is often extremely soft and tender to the touch, but a few days of attention and wrapping as described in this thread and the horse is well on its way to recovery! :

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2178

Some frogs just need snicks taken at the heel junction so the pick can pull through cleanly.
Those frogs that fold over at the side crevices, I will cut off the folded over area. This fold only traps gunk, which often is the starting point for those deep undermining bacterial pockets.

Every frog gets its tip trimmed to angle downwards towards the sole.

I don't run into many instances where the frog actually protrudes past the level of hoof wall- guess our sandpaper surfaces take care of that issue.

We have had a dry winter (for a change) and I am definitely noticing that some hooves are reflecting this dryness. It is a WONDERFUL thing considering how the hooves are almost always too wet down here.

On these drier hooves, the frogs have a very hardened outer layer, but I leave this IF and only IF the entire layer is smooth and free of cracks. If cracks are present, I'll pare around the cracks, leaving smooth tissue behind that is not so apt to trap bacteria.

Hope this helps!
Regards,
Kim

[IRISHMAN]

I trim the frog to a wedge shape,while also trimming out its central cleft.How much is removed is determined by frog size, both in width and depth and also by its prominence or atrophy. I aim to keep the frog symmetrically balanced(medial/lateral).Through this trimming process i attempt to maintain adequate frog pressure and frog size.

[calshoer]

I take ratty loose bits, trim out the central sulcis if needed to keep it open.
I leave as much attached frog as I can, even some dead layer, to get at least the rear part of the frog to reach the ground through the thickness of the shoe. Only in diseased frogs do I trim more than that, to open them up more. Patty