plumb coo-coo

[dehere98]

I need some advice, or a bonk on the head, I can no longer think clearly or rationally. :eek:
My horse is literally driving me insane. I've had him nearly 3 years, he came to me, however, unbeknownst to me at the time, with dropped coffin bones and some navicular changes.
For most of the past year he has been getting what is popularly called 'the wild horse trim' with some reasonable success, but he always seems to fall back into lameness.
So, me being the bright thinker I am says to myself.
Let's just bag the whole barefoot idea and hire a big gun to come in and evaluate my horse. Well the big gun reviewed my xrays, things aren't so bad, let's put a pair of shoes on him. Well he went even lamer with his new shoes.
And in my opinion has nothing to do with the application, or type of shoe, for whatever reason, shoes just don't do it for my horse- wish they did.
So, gave the horse away to a good home, lucky me to find horse such a nice home.
Well new home is applying what is called The Pete Ramey White Line Strategy Trim and the horse is coming sound- in a week mind you...
His stride is a bit short, but he trots up and down hills and is working in a beautiful frame, coming into the bridle, balanced, comfortable. I'm thinking what the hell is going on here, my horse is a different horse.
My friend who I gave the horse to looks at me and says-
"Do you want your horse back?" I've got plenty of horses, so if you want him back, he's yours. :eek:
So, do I want to go back to chewing on my fingernails and agonizing whether the bars are trimmed just right, or do I move on to a horse that has sound, happy feet.
I just don't know what to do, as I am deeply attached to this horse and have been in a constant state of depression since I gave him away. So any advice appreciated, just err away from the side of harshness and sarcasm, it just doesn't sit well with me since I'm already about as torn up as I can be.

Now I am in a huge quandry. I adore the horse, no I am committed to the horse and love him dearly. I've invested countless hours, blood, sweat and tears. He has just worn me out.
On the other hand if there is a real possibility that he may come sound and to the level of riding I want to pursue, than I am a very happy girl.

Thanks, Jenn

[calshoer]

Let's just bag the whole barefoot idea and hire a big gun to come in and evaluate my horse. Well the big gun reviewed my xrays, things aren't so bad, let's put a pair of shoes on him. Well he went even lamer with his new shoes.

Well the "big gun" obviously missed something, because no type of shoes correctly applied should make the horse lamer. I know a lot of "big guns" who can't see the forest for the trees and miss the one apparently little thing that may be making the horse lame. And occasionaly exacerbate it with the shoeing. Obviously the trimmer found the problem .
Ask the trimmer exactly what they changed, the bars? heels? breakover? whatever, they found a root problem and fixed it. A farrier can do that too,IF they know what to look for. Too many don't though. Not even the big guns.
Patty

[Jeanie Connors]

Hi Jenn :) , my thought is that whoever was doing a "typical wild horse trim" was missing the mark, as well. Pete Ramey's methods are wholly "wild horse trim". The white line strategy is just a trim that focuses on aggressivley getting flares under control. Flares can cause a great deal of pain, like they sound they already had with your horse, but really going after them eases that pain almost immediately. If your previous trimmer wasn't addressing the flares (a pretty bug hole in the trimming process), it's very likely your horse's hooves were trying to improve, but just kept on flaring as the hoof wall grew down and kept getting pulled away from the hoof.

If you want this horse back, I would strongly recommend keeping his current trimmer and asking what differences were made to the trim. Also examine his living arrangements at his current place, and your place, his diet, his exercise, etc. Anything you can do to keep his current environment going when and if he returns to your place will help him keep sound :) . Pete Ramey wrote a book which I highly recommend, and his website and articles are clear and easy to understand and may give you more of an idea of what's going on with your guy's feet. Good luck with him, I hope he comes home to you soon!

[matryoshka]

Jeanie,

Are you talking about _Making Natural Hoof Care Work for You_, or is there another book written by Pete Ramey that you find helpful? I really like his writing--it is easy to understand and he provides pictures of the trimming process for a variety of feet. I could do without the anti-shoe bit, but otherwise it has changed the way I look at a horse's feet and my trims have gotten MUCH better.

I am currently trimming a foundered QH with dropped soles which sounds much like the one Jenn posted about. She's also flat-footed. She's sound after a trim but has been abcessing lately (3 times in the last 3 months :eek: ). I don't know if the last one simply didn't drain all the way and got reinflamed or if she's had two separate ones in the same foot. Anyway, we are considering having her shod to provide relief from the abscessing. Part of the problem is that it was wet, followed by rapid drying and hard-as-rock clay soil. Then it rained again and got soft/sloppy. Lovely weather we're having on the east coast this year. :)

Anyway, I'm interested in hearing what the farrier who applies the shoes will say. He does excellent work, and I refer any client whose horse needs shoes to him. We discuss the case after he visits the client so I can keep learning.

Oh, and I agree with Jeanne: if you decide to take the horse back, try to keep the same trimmer that does him at the other farm. He sounds like a keeper!

Pam

[joan cameron]

Jeanie, I sooooooo sympathize with you....had a similiar situation. Was given a 15yr. old qtr mare for free. She was shod with pads, always had been due to "flat feet". Had never been ridden much by 1st owner from age 3-12. Then given to a family member, she was ridden sporadically, usually in a ring with soft footing, but was difficult to get to flex and bend. Was given to me, had her for 6 months, did trail riding and she started to get sorer and sorer. Vet came, did xrays, said she had navicular and he felt she had foundered at some time as well, due to the way she moved, but no rotation. Tried bar shoes, special pads, dental impression material, yup...the big fat expert at outrageous prices...only got worse. Gave up and retired her to a rescue to be used as a companion or very light trail riding. She did get adopted but is protected for life as she can always come back to the rescue. Broke my heart....I loved her, she was so trustworthy, but when I would put the saddle on she would start grinding her teeth. I couldn't do it to her anymore. Now I could kick myself because I never considered barefoot and I think it could've helped her immensely. I do have 1st dibs if she ever returns to the rescue...but how I wish I had known then what I know now. Not to say barefoot would've definitly worked...but I'm convinced we could've gotten her feet to a much healthier place........My advice to you......take your horse back, learn all you can from the trimmer and marvel and enjoy your saved horse......it's worth the chance. Also, if trouble flares.......try boots, they're working for me!!
Go for it and Good Luck!!

[Greg Thomas]

The questions are-

Do you want a horse that is useable now or do you want a restoration project with absolutely no guarantee that it will ever be sound? Do you want potential soundness or do you want proven soundness? If the horse does become sound will it be a great horse or just and OK horse? Do you want to be a good master or a redeeming saint?

There are no guarantees that the soundest horse will stay sound but you know for sure the unsound horse is not. Being "married" to a horse is often expensive and causes a lot of heartbreak. You can have yoiur dreams crushed over and over.

It is obvious which will be the most economical and if that is not a factor then ......well I'm just too poor to understand.

Greg

[Barefoottree]

I would suggest holding off on taking the horse back. Keep an eye on things and see if this Pete Ramey White Line deal passes the acid test. I have a feeling the walls have been made totally passive and this affects blood flow to the sole coriums because now the soles and possibly bars will be actively weightbearing. So, in essence, the horse isn't feeling most of the undersides of its feet probably, due to limited blood flow there.

You said he's traveling short so it makes me wonder how 'sound' that is.

Give it time and sit back and watch knowing that whatever happens, it's someone else's responsibility.

I am VERY suspicious of any method which appears to undo years of damage in one shot....VERY, VEEERRY suspicious.

Tree

[caballus]

Matryoshka ... if you go to http://www.barefoothorse.com you'll find Marjorie's reference that explains Pete's White Line trim stragey very clearly.

--Gwen