Pocupine Quill

[David Hayne]

Looking for info on Pocupine Quill injury...

Horse received 14 quills in the cannon bone region off the front leg. Vet pulled quills out and treatment of Penicillin and Antibotic cream.

The swelling on the cannon bone resembles a bowed tendon and feels hot to the touch. Owner used a bread poultice to see if any infection or broken quill maybe drawn out...there is know sign off anything coming out of the entre wounds, but still tender to the touch in the swelled area.

Horse is walking but still lame at a trot in the pasture....

Question...if a tip of a quill is still in the leg...will it work its way out, I have been told that a quill has a barb at it's tip and may not travel to it's point of origin but find another way out ?

How tough is a tendon sheath and or tendon....can a quill penetrate thru both or is a tendon tough enough to divert the quill ?

If a quill tip is still in the leg...can it disolve in there or will it find a way out?

After one week the swelling is still warm but horse shows signs of improvement. Owner is calling in Vet for another look.


So any advice or experinces that could help me understand quill injuries would be greatly appreciated.

thanks for your time,

David Hayne

[irishcas]

My dogs got Quilled on Thursday, vet removed them all. But if anything made it in it will eventually come out.

Not always pretty.

My dogs were not sore or had any swelling. Here is what the male looked like, look down his left leg as well. Female had them on her tongue and all over the inside of her mouth. We were at least 10 miles from the trail head!

800.00 later :(

[Donnie Walker]

You might try radiographing the affected area. Left over quills will most probably show up if setting is adjusted.

[Jack Evers]

I had one instance where my pasture herd apparently had a soccer game with one. The experience was fatal to the porcupine and several horses had lower leg quills removed by a vet. Drugs are good when pulling quills from lower hind legs. Soreness but no permanent problems.

Glad your dog didn't wind up with one in his eye, Kim.

[BS-Horseshoeing]

And I thought my dogs gettin sprayed by skunks was bad.:eek::D

[Julie Plaster]

You might try radiographing the affected area. Left over quills will most probably show up if setting is adjusted.


Would you consider an ultrasound?

Julie :-)

[Tallisman1968]

Sorry but this is not much help, just thought they were amazing photos. I hope your horse did not get stuck with this many quills !!!

[Red Amor]

My dogs got Quilled on Thursday, vet removed them all. But if anything made it in it will eventually come out.

Not always pretty.

My dogs were not sore or had any swelling. Here is what the male looked like, look down his left leg as well. Female had them on her tongue and all over the inside of her mouth. We were at least 10 miles from the trail head!

800.00 later :(



OOWWWWWWW BUGGAR:(

[David Hayne]

About the photos.......BIG OUCH..

From experince...do quills have barbs at the tip which would not allow them to come out thru the entre wound area?

how tough is a tendon sheath and or tendon....what are the chances of a quill penatrating the tendon?

The area that is swelled, that resembles a Bowed Tendon and showing signs of heat one week after injury ....any thoughts on this?

Just a thought...during injury, I am thinking that since this looks like a bowed tendon, maybe it could be......I hope I am wrong on this thought

perhaps a DVM could shine a little light on this topic.

thanks again...David

[SlowShoe]

The quills generally tend to be barbed on the ends. If only slightly. Its not easy to pull them out. We've had some pretty good cases with our dogs covered similar to Kims picture. We have always pulled them out ourselves though.

I'd second the Docs concern about it actually being a bowed tendon. You can imagine the horses reaction to getting quilled.

-josh

[10Ha.Wood]

From my own (dogs) experiences:

Quills are a modified hair and are made up of keratin. It is the quills' stiffness, combined with the barbs and extremely pointy tip that makes them so effective. The barbs are like scales, they lie flat against the shaft when moving forward, but rise up and 'hook' when pulled backward.

I have seen quills embedded in the trunk of a maple tree, stacked firewood, and even a car tire. I'd imagine they can penetrate anything softer than bone. That said, once they have been embedded in moist tissue for a few hours, they soften up and become much less mobile.

I once had a couple disappear into my dogs nose before I could get them all pulled. One festered, and I was able to pop it out after a few days of squeezing pus out the entrance hole. Another could be seen as a long lump laying along his nose under the skin. It never moved after the first night, and after a few weeks it slowly became less prominent until finally I could not find it. If it was encysted, I'd expect to be able to feel it under the thin skin, so I assume it was dissolved.

Hope that helps,

Chris

[irishcas]

The quills generally tend to be barbed on the ends. If only slightly. Its not easy to pull them out. We've had some pretty good cases with our dogs covered similar to Kims picture. We have always pulled them out ourselves though.

I'd second the Docs concern about it actually being a bowed tendon. You can imagine the horses reaction to getting quilled.

-josh

You did Josh. I was terrified to do that. The Boxer not pictured, I couldn't bring myself to take photos had at least 20 or 30 on her tongue alone. She also had them lodged on the roof and insides of her mouth.

I walked with the buggers out of the park to a certain point and then had a ranger pick us up and take us back to the truck. By that time the fawn boxer had foam and blood coming out of her mouth.

I didn't know what to do, so drove to the first vet that was at the bottom of the mountain and laid out the credit card.

I asked the vet if this would teach them a lesson and they said not necessarily. My fawn is a killing machine and I actually had to pull her OFF the porcupine despite her mouth and face being full of quills. She was still trying to kill it. Sigh. I'm going to write a book about all my riding adventures.

Would you have still pulled them out? Do the dogs cry when you do it?

[SlowShoe]

Would you have still pulled them out? Do the dogs cry when you do it?

Probably, and probably. Im guess your dog was foaming and bleeding due to the fact the quills were in its mouth. Probably not any serious injury. But if you suspect serious injury or are faint of heart you might want to go to the vet.

When you pull them we've always used needle nose pliers or forceps if they are available. The skin pulls with it, but just pull straight with the shaft of the quill and hold the base of the wound with your fingers.

-Josh

[Ray_Knightley]

My dogs got Quilled on Thursday, vet removed them all. But if anything made it in it will eventually come out.

Not always pretty.

My dogs were not sore or had any swelling. Here is what the male looked like, look down his left leg as well. Female had them on her tongue and all over the inside of her mouth. We were at least 10 miles from the trail head!

800.00 later :(

Poor old boy ,not ever going to worry about the tick or two we get here anymore...hope they are well now!!!:eek:

[cuttinshoer]

You did Josh. I was terrified to do that. The Boxer not pictured, I couldn't bring myself to take photos had at least 20 or 30 on her tongue alone. She also had them lodged on the roof and insides of her mouth.

I walked with the buggers out of the park to a certain point and then had a ranger pick us up and take us back to the truck. By that time the fawn boxer had foam and blood coming out of her mouth.

I didn't know what to do, so drove to the first vet that was at the bottom of the mountain and laid out the credit card.

I asked the vet if this would teach them a lesson and they said not necessarily. My fawn is a killing machine and I actually had to pull her OFF the porcupine despite her mouth and face being full of quills. She was still trying to kill it. Sigh. I'm going to write a book about all my riding adventures.

Would you have still pulled them out? Do the dogs cry when you do it?

Did you take the poor porcupine to the vet, He's the one that got dog bit.:eek::D:D

Justin Decker

[Jim Sweeney]

The quills generally tend to be barbed on the ends. If only slightly. Its not easy to pull them out. We've had some pretty good cases with our dogs covered similar to Kims picture. We have always pulled them out ourselves though.

-josh

I had a pair of killers once that my vet got so sick of he gave me an old speculum and some rompun and asked me to not come back. I have a PHD in quill removal. Kim your pic brought back alot of bad memories my heart goes out to you and your pooch. I found this pic in my album of the worst one I ever saw, not mine
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj286/JimSweeney/quildog20ready.jpg

[irishcas]

I had a pair of killers once that my vet got so sick of he gave me an old speculum and some rompun and asked me to not come back. I have a PHD in quill removal. Kim your pic brought back alot of bad memories my heart goes out to you and your pooch. I found this pic in my album of the worst one I ever saw, not mine


Thanks everyone.

Jim, I saw this pix when searching about Porcupines. Ugh, I have more to look forward to??? I can't afford another 800.00 to be sure!

To whomever asked, the Porcupine was totally and completely UNHURT. My dogs and my pocketbook are what suffered.

I still don't know how I would pull them out of a tongue. Freaking dogs!

[David Hayne]

Follow up...swelling has gone down ( which took one week ) know sign of infection or lameness, so we can guess that all quills have been pulled out completely.

Still do not know if the quills could bounce off a tendon?

thanks for your replys....David

[Jack Evers]

Pure hearsay, but I've heard that since the quills are hollow, it's advantageous to cut the end off before pulling. That allows them to collapse a bit. I hve no idea if it's true.

My dogs that have had encounters were German Shepards and dobermans, more of a slashing type attack dog - dart in and back out rather than the bore in and get the the job done attitude of a typical boxer type dog. A couple of dart ins and a few quills each time, then they back off and bark for help with two to a dozen quills in their face and nose - not nearly what the boxer types get.

Glad your horse is looking better.

[irishcas]

Pure hearsay, but I've heard that since the quills are hollow, it's advantageous to cut the end off before pulling. That allows them to collapse a bit. I hve no idea if it's true.

My dogs that have had encounters were German Shepards and dobermans, more of a slashing type attack dog - dart in and back out rather than the bore in and get the the job done attitude of a typical boxer type dog. A couple of dart ins and a few quills each time, then they back off and bark for help with two to a dozen quills in their face and nose - not nearly what the boxer types get.

Glad your horse is looking better.

David:

I too am glad the horse is okay, and I'm sorry if I derailed your thread. Are Porcupines more active at certain times of the year?

Jack - you know Boxers and from your description I now know why I like them so much. We seem to have the same personality :D

You nailed them perfectly. I asked a friend and she has pulled quills out a few times and said that the hollow deflation is not accurate. I'm thinking besides wire cutters I need to start riding with needle nose pliers :)

[David Hayne]

Ok....I tryed too hand sew heavy material and had to use pliers to push needle threw..... This is why I was wondering if a Quill could stick into a tendon...my thoughts where if it could go threw the skin and the tendon sheath...could the Quill also stick into the tendon. I could imagine a tip of a quill sliding up and down inside the tendon sheath.

Of course xray could show this but I fiqure with all the farriers on this forum that perhaps someone had first hand account of this.

so anything is possible, and just when I think I have everything fiqured out, a horse comes along and teaches me something new.

for now I'm happy for this horse that has improved and I'm sorry to here about the dogs ..

so keep those Quill stories rolling in and hopefully I will get an answer to my main " POINT "...can a quill stick into a tendon.

have a good day...David

[Luna butte]

i remember being a punk kid riding a ranch horse named "tuffy", out checking on calvy heifers one morning and finding a "porky" wondering around a meadow,

and never being the type to let one get away since out here at that time anyways they had a $5 bounty on them,

i roped the little bugger and drug him over to the nearest tree and climbed off to get a stick to get him with and that sucker spun around and ran backwards into my horses hind legs :eek: after spending a couple hours pulling quills with my fence pliers cause the horse had at least 100 of them in him some being as deep as 1.5", i climbed back on rode the 3.5 miles home thoroughly disgusted with my own ignorance.
that horse was sure named right cause he never one time limped on the way home or ever as far as i remember

now i'd bet that them quills did puncture at least one of the flexor tendons, but apparently it did not slow "ol tuffy" down one bit.

[Ray_Knightley]

I think the closest I have ever got to a Quill is fishing years ago I am sure that those floats where made from Pocupine Quill.
A question do the shoot the quills out somehow ,or did those dogs get it from really going for the porcupine???

[Luna butte]

I think the closest I have ever got to a Quill is fishing years ago I am sure that those floats where made from Pocupine Quill.
A question do the shoot the quills out somehow ,or did those dogs get it from really going for the porcupine???

they will whack their tail on the ground and sometimes the quills will fallout on there own, but never do they shoot them. if a dog gets aface full its more than likely because the dog didn't learn anything from the first time he "nosed" the darn thing or he gets mad after getting a couple then decides to attack

[Ray_Knightley]

they will whack their tail on the ground and sometimes the quills will fallout on there own, but never do they shoot them. if a dog gets aface full its more than likely because the dog didn't learn anything from the first time he "nosed" the darn thing or he gets mad after getting a couple then decides to attack

Thanks for clearing that up ...better to stick to rabbits I would say....nice and soft :rolleyes:

[SlowShoe]

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj286/JimSweeney/quildog20ready.jpg

Maybe this is his Halloween costume.. maybe he's going as pinhead?

http://www.pitofhorror.com/newdesign/hellraiser/images/pinhead4.jpg

[David Hayne]

Since my first post ....the owner dealt with a swelling below the carpus joint where the quills had entered. Over the last several weeks since know sign of infection " I " thought it has to be a tendon injury.....yesterday the owner found a QUILL ...simple unbeliveable for a quill to lay in the leg for almost 9 weeks..

Was or did the tendon get injuried ?? Since no infection was showing we treated the leg as a tendon injury with cream , wraps, etc.

So we will keep looking to see if another quill shows itself...just thought I would let you all know...

David