forge welding tips

[ollieolson]

I've been trying for a couple hours my hand at welding in a gas forge. I have Whisper Baby forge and I'm using Mustad Sureweld. I get the joint ready, heat the joint up, brush, ad flux, heat to a yellow heat, and then I try and weld by hitting with light blows, but the steel won't bond:mad:
Anyone have any tips? I don't need to weld anything right now, but it would sure be nice to be able to if (when) the need arises.

[mybluedanube]

Did you scarf the two pieces? What I do is after they are scarfed I set them really tight(left over right if you are right handed) while the metal is hot but before you have fluxed the metal. Almost like a fake weld.

I get them as tight as I can with out distorting the metal then I flux all around the seam so that at least some flux once liquefied seeps into the minuscule gap between the metal.

Next I heat until you start to see the metal bubbling in the area to be welded or the metal is the same color as the forge liner when it is super hot almost white. Back of the forge appears to get the hottest.

When I take it out I use the edge of my hammer on the top scarf in a pulling motion so you are hitting the metal with the bottom edge(like pulling clips) and just smooth it toward you. Flip it work other side....

Only work while the metal is super hot(few seconds) or you are going to break what weld you have made, and ensure your anvil is already hot or you are going to loose heat to fast to accomplish anything.

I get rid of both edges then heat again to reshape the welded part.

Hope this helps I have never had one not weld this way. Thanks to Chuck Presnail for explaining it so well.

[hotrodiesel]

Getting them overlapped properly and snug against each other is key. When you bring it out to the anvil only hit it a few times on one side then flip it over and hit the other. Light dragging(towards you)blows. Just the very tip of the scarf, bringing the thinner scarf into the thicker material. If when you bring it out and you work the first side to much, the anvil will draw all you heat out of the other side, so when you flip it over to get it stuck it's not hot enough. Try welding on the horn. It doesn't draw as much heat out. If you don't get them overlapped enough, the scarfs will just split apart when you hit them.

[Tom Stovall, CJF]

hotrodiesel in gray

Getting them overlapped properly and snug against each other is key. When you bring it out to the anvil only hit it a few times on one side then flip it over and hit the other. Light dragging(towards you)blows. Just the very tip of the scarf, bringing the thinner scarf into the thicker material. If when you bring it out and you work the first side to much, the anvil will draw all you heat out of the other side, so when you flip it over to get it stuck it's not hot enough. Try welding on the horn. It doesn't draw as much heat out. If you don't get them overlapped enough, the scarfs will just split apart when you hit them.

To expand on Dan's excellent advice, when you pull your shoe out of the fire at welding heat, DO NOT allow it to come into contact with your anvil until an instant before the first blow from your hammer.

Your anvil is a helluva good heatsink. :)

[Joey Aczon]

In addition to the above, I flux before overlapping my scarfs so that your scarf doesn't scale while it's getting to a welding heat. I try to get the shoe hot, then brushed, fluxed, overlapped, and back into the forge while the shoe is still red. I like a scarf about 1.5 times the width of the stock, that seems to work pretty well for me.

I don't have to do it that way but I nearly never fail to weld one that way. If I'm in a hurry I always do it that way even though it takes a little longer because of the reliability, and I don't have to weld it twice. :rolleyes:

[beslagsmed]

Was at a clinic with Billy Crothers a while back. He stated he always uses 3 heats with a gas forge. Weld one side, don't worry about the other side. Reheat, weld the other side. On the third head smooth things out. This seemed to work good for me when using a gas forge.

[Mike Ferrara]

If you're getting a lot of scale, you might want to clean the joint before overlapping with hot rasp or grinder. Once the joint is overlapped it's covered and somewhat protected from oxidization.

[Bradley-1stChoice]

Your anvil is a helluva good heatsink. :)
I preheat my anvil . . .
as hot as if I was making shoes for 1/2 a day

I lightly hammer each edge both sides and then back into the heat right away

repeating that a couple of times.

You may not need to do that but I do,
I have always had a terrible time hammer welding

[smitty88]

I get the joint ready, heat the joint up, (OLLIE)



I know were the problem is:D

[brian robertson]

For thin stock or gas forge welds I use a "welding block", it's 1"x2"x4" piece of stainless. I preheat it while turning my shoes then set on my anvil right before I make my welds on it. Seems to work almost every time; except for the next time 'cause I jinxed myself. Dag nab it...

[Robert Wright]

I've been trying for a couple hours my hand at welding in a gas forge. I have Whisper Baby forge and I'm using Mustad Sureweld. I get the joint ready, heat the joint up, brush, ad flux, heat to a yellow heat, and then I try and weld by hitting with light blows, but the steel won't bond:mad:
Anyone have any tips? I don't need to weld anything right now, but it would sure be nice to be able to if (when) the need arises.

I have the same forge and same flux and have never been able to forge weld in it. I have forge welded before but not in that forge.

[Robert Wright]

I think next time I'm going to turn the pressure up to 30lbs and let the thing run for about 15 mins with the door shut. Then I'm gonna get it up to welding temp and and just lay my hammer on it so it sticks. Brush it, flux it, and throw it back in. I know it's gonna work this time! :cool:

[Red Amor]

I to have trouble getting them to stick in the gas
better luck in the coke
work that out ?
Tom jogged my memory with the comment on the cold anvil
when ever weve been trying to weld shoes at practice days at Paul Mitchels place the anvils were quite warn

so I like the tip from robO with his lill welding block

I a shame yeah when youve put so much work into making a realy nice shoe ( even if you do say so yourself ) and then bugger it up with a witch of a weld :confused:

[hotrodiesel]

This is one i made for a horse a few months ago. made in the shop and was going to punch it at the horse. You can see it never made it to the foot.:D
Start with your bar pretty close togehter. Long overlap. It's easier ti widen it up after welding than to narrow it. It shouldn't matter what forge you are using as long as you have it up to temp. Sure weld is going to make it easier for you. i still use alot of borax cause it's cheap. this one was done with sure weld. Very light blows bring the thinned scarf into the thicker material.

This is a 4 heat shoe.
1. bump toe(a little) and make toe bend
2. hockey stick, turn branch and scarf
3. other branch same as above plus bringing
the scarves together
4. weld

You gotta practice it alot. Figure out your steps.
Wire brush the hell out of it. after you flux and
in the fire, flip the shoe over.
I'm no clinician or teacher, but if you like me too, I can go out and scarf
and overlap before welding, if that will help.

[Gary Hill]

Nice and clean Dan!

[Mike Ferrara]

I have the same forge and same flux and have never been able to forge weld in it. I have forge welded before but not in that forge.

I have a wisper baby that I leave at one of the barns I shoe in. I haven't tried to weld in it but it doesn't seem to run as hot as my wisper momma.

[cowboy_bc]

Hi all,

I have a home made forge and at one time I couldn,t weld to save my life and my biggest tips are

Apply flux with a salt shaker
don't get flux in the lap
on the first and second weld heat hold the shoe above the anvil 1/4 in then tap lightly, flip repeat

When the welding light finally does come on try welding shoes in differant places

[smitty88]

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z52/smitty8888/concave-barshoe10.jpg
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z52/smitty8888/concave-barshoe11.jpg

Concave can be a bit harder to weld but dont get it to hot

[spot on shoeing]

Hi all,

I have a home made forge and at one time I couldn,t weld to save my life and my biggest tips are

Apply flux with a salt shaker
don't get flux in the lap
on the first and second weld heat hold the shoe above the anvil 1/4 in then tap lightly, flip repeat

When the welding light finally does come on try welding shoes in differant places

Whatever works?? here is an alternate approach.

http://anviledge.com/index.php?option=com_hwdvideoshare&task=viewvideo&Itemid=194&video_id=10

James

[cowboy_bc]

Hi all,

Yes, a 2 burner forge would be a better approach but were talking Whisper Baby a differant cat as far as forge welding goes.

Kevin

[spot on shoeing]

Hi all,

Yes, a 2 burner forge would be a better approach but were talking Whisper Baby a differant cat as far as forge welding goes.

Kevin

Interesting. As far as I'm concerned Proper Heat + Proper technique=weld

http://anviledge.com/index.php?option=com_hwdvideoshare&task=viewvideo&Itemid=194&video_id=11

if you would like I can make a "How to Forge weld in a Whisper Baby" Tutorial

James

[cowboy_bc]

Interesting. As far as I'm concerned Proper Heat + Proper technique=weld

http://anviledge.com/index.php?option=com_hwdvideoshare&task=viewvideo&Itemid=194&video_id=11

if you would like I can make a "How to Forge weld in a Whisper Baby" Tutorial

James

Yes that would be great, I'll remind you in a few days

Thanks
Kevin

[spot on shoeing]

Yes that would be great, I'll remind you in a few days

Thanks
Kevin

A while back Jim Quick gave a presentation at the WCB Superclinic all about welding. Get that video!! It might be available through the WCB store or maybe Hot Iron Productions.

Tutorial forthcoming. Any other requests? weld type, shoe type, flux, hammer/tong preference, anvil?

James

[Robert Wright]

A while back Jim Quick gave a presentation at the WCB Superclinic all about welding. Get that video!! It might be available through the WCB store or maybe Hot Iron Productions.

Tutorial forthcoming. Any other requests? weld type, shoe type, flux, hammer/tong preference, anvil?

James

I'd like to see a welding demonstration done with a blow torch and stall jack please.

[SlowShoe]

I'd like to see a welding demonstration done with a blow torch and stall jack please.

Wheres Norval when you need him?

[Tom Stovall, CJF]

Robert Wright in gray

I'd like to see a welding demonstration done with a blow torch and stall jack please.

No problem! If you've got a little firebrick handy, you can use a weed burner for a heat source. Forge welding on a stall jack is no different than welding on an anvil because at a welding heat, you're not whacking hell out of the workpiece, you're gently pushing the molecules together. :)

[Matt McMicken]

Mr Stovall, might you have an answer as to forge welding stainless steel or titanium? Id like to see a tutorial on aluminum as well if anyone would care too.

[Robert Wright]

Matt check this out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1y8kY9Y5gI

[Jake Whitman]

I'd like to see a welding demonstration done with a blow torch and stall jack please.Ever welded Aluminum?? That's pretty much all you need.

[Tom Stovall, CJF]

Matt McMicken in gray

Mr Stovall, might you have an answer as to forge welding stainless steel

When I was playing at making pattern welded knives, I've forge welded 400 series stainless to Fe using flourite-based flux. I've never tried 300 series since they aren't heat treatable.

or titanium?

I've welded Ti using TIG and an inert atmosphere, but I don't think it can be successfully joined in a forge due to atmospheric embrittlement.

Id like to see a tutorial on aluminum as well if anyone would care too.

IME, AL is easy to weld using O/A, TIG, or MIG (especially with a spool gun). Some hammerheads join aluminum in a forge, but it's a slow process that often results in a little pool of silver at the bottom of the forge. :)

[Matt McMicken]

Thats what I thought. I hold 6G TIG certs in aluminum, stainless and mild steel, all open root. I wasnt sure if they could be done in the forge or not. I saw a post on welding aluminum with a filler wire, but was curious about the stainless. Thank you for youre reply.

[smitty88]

I'd like to see a welding demonstration done with a blow torch and stall jack please.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z52/smitty8888/weldingaliminium4-1.jpg


Robert,
the brick is sitting on the stall jack will that do ya

[Robert Wright]

Hi all,

Yes, a 2 burner forge would be a better approach but were talking Whisper Baby a differant cat as far as forge welding goes.

Kevin


If I know spot on, he'll make a cool vid showing how welding in the whisper baby is no different than welding in anything else. You'll be hiding your seems in the baby like you've been doing it everyday for years. :)

[SlowShoe]

Seems like this aluminum rod would be awesome for welding AL or rebuilding AL toes, or renforcing toes since it is much stronger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-cv3R4fWZc

looks like amazing stuff. I think Im gonna order some. We have trailers that always need repairing too.

[dave murray]

Looks interesting, if you order some let us know how it works. i just use the flux coated ali rod, it works fine but that stuff looks like a lot cleaner job.

[Matt McMicken]

That is amazing! Looks a whole lot easier than the old 4043 or 6061 TIG rod.

[Robert Wright]

Thanks to that nice young mans tuturial I'm able to now weld in my whisper baby.

[SlowShoe]

Thanks to that nice young mans tuturial I'm able to now weld in my whisper baby.

Eric has been banned!!!


:D

[Robert Wright]

Eric has been banned!!!


:D

I know.:confused:

[SlowShoe]

I know.:confused:

Haha I just realized you are Nick.

[smitty88]

Josh,
any idea how much they cost?

[Phil Armitage]

Whatever works?? here is an alternate approach.

http://anviledge.com/index.php?option=com_hwdvideoshare&task=viewvideo&Itemid=194&video_id=10

James

Eric did a nice job exlaining how to. I'm going to give it try this week and post the best one I come up with, could be awhile. Nice how to video.

[SlowShoe]

Josh,
any idea how much they cost?

They dont seem to be too cheap I payed $30 US for 10 rods that are 18" long.

[Phil Armitage]

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z52/smitty8888/weldingaliminium4-1.jpg


Robert,
the brick is sitting on the stall jack will that do ya

Ha, ha. That is good. :D