Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing

[reillyshoe]

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

[lonestar]

Pat: What is the 1 inch braided poly tube ?

[reillyshoe]

the polyester tube is fabric that is tubular in shape. I cut a short piece and put a piece of wire in the middle. With the wire in the middle of the tube, the sutures will pull everything tight without destroying the fabric. If you look at the picture of these in place, you can see the top of the wires sticking out the top.
I might have to take a picture of this tomorrow without the glue for this to make sense.

[westtxshoer]

Very impressive, Pat. Can you tell me how difficult it is to remove the package?

[dave murray]

Nice job Patrick, did you put the same shoe on the LF. was the horse in training? and is it going back to the track?

[George Geist]

Real nice work Pat;)
George

[reillyshoe]

The horse will be off work for a while, so I did not change the other foot. We will re-evaluate the horse in a month and then see where we are.

It should not be difficult to remove the repair, at least no more difficult than removing a glue on shoe. Depending on how it looks, I might leave the repair and just trim the foot and change the shoe.

[lonestar]

Pat: Is the CuS04 the silicone ?

[westtxshoer]

I'm guessing that CuS04 is either an anti-bacterial agent or some sort of medication?

So there are no drilled holes for suture wires or screw holes into the hoof wall to attach a plate of any sort?

How long will the repair remain attached to the hoof wall? I am asking about the glue's bond.

I am very interested in this procedure.

[tbloomer]

Pat,

If I ever go back into the fiberglass boat repair business, I'm going to call you in on the "stuctural" stuff. :D

[spot on shoeing]

CuSo4 is Copper Sulfate I believe.

[reillyshoe]

I'm guessing that CuS04 is either an anti-bacterial agent or some sort of medication?

So there are no drilled holes for suture wires or screw holes into the hoof wall to attach a plate of any sort?

How long will the repair remain attached to the hoof wall? I am asking about the glue's bond.

I am very interested in this procedure.

Copper sulfate (CuSO4) is an antibacterial, antifungal drying agent.

There are no holes drilled into the hoofwall, all of the support is externally provided. I told the owner there is 50% chance that we will replace the entire repair at the next shoeing, and a 50% chance that we will just replace the shoe. I will have to wait and see. Replacing the inner repair will depend on several factors including infection (there was some infection in the crack) or the growth of the hoof at the coronet. If the hoof is still unstable I might just replace the sutures to keep the heel in some compression. There are lots of factors including the glue bond that will determine the next step.

[lonestar]

Thanks, I thought so ,I was thinking you might have a silicone that had the CuS04 crystals already within it[other than C.S.] ..... Neat work.

[Jaye Perry]

reillyshoe.....I might just replace the sutures to keep the heel in some compression

I know you are vying for the 100th spot in the "100 Top Farriers List". Doing one simple QRT crack ain't gonna get ya there.
I want that spot! So, I did two QRT cracks on one horse; on the rears and medial sides non the less!
Somebody tried to lace one crack and the other hadn't popped yet but was coming. I bastordize some of your protocols on this show hunter ...............


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/ferrous2007/QRT%20Cracks/server028.jpg

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/ferrous2007/QRT%20Cracks/server010.jpg


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/ferrous2007/QRT%20Cracks/server026.jpg

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/ferrous2007/QRT%20Cracks/server015.jpg

[Jaye Perry]

Both medial heels were, in some circles called, paper heels. No structural integrity or relevance.... once seen, removed. Finger is beside the papered heel that extends into the heel bulb/buttress.....


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/ferrous2007/QRT%20Cracks/server036.jpg


Finger points to removed heel portion on RH...

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/ferrous2007/QRT%20Cracks/server043.jpg


LH patched with carbon fiber and Kevlar with a heel wrap...

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/ferrous2007/QRT%20Cracks/server049.jpg


Finished; shod with #1 bar wedge, putty with CS crystals mixed in for frog support . i let the putty overflow onto the medial heel for cushion on distressed heels


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/ferrous2007/QRT%20Cracks/server066.jpg

[calshoer]

Pat, Very Nice work. I have question though.
If the horse is to be out of work for a while anyway, why could you not have just done a straight or heart bar with a well floated heel to see if it would begin to grow in attached, (and still allow doctoring) then do a simpler repair later on the remaining a dry crack when the horse goes back to work?

[reillyshoe]

The horse had previously been managed with an egg bar shoe and a floated medial quarter, and it did not work for this horse. Should the horse respond and grow really well, this repair would allow for some light conditioning down the road.

The thought process of floating the heel presumes that quarter cracks are a result of solar loading in the area of the crack. I am starting to question if this is in fact a causal factor in either the pathogenisis or treatment of the condition. At the very least, floating an existing crack might create additional shearing forces as the forces on either side of the floated region have very different forces and this might lead to undesirable hoof deformation.

[reillyshoe]

I know you are vying for the 100th spot in the "100 Top Farriers List". Doing one simple QRT crack ain't gonna get ya there.
I want that spot!

OK, that's really funny! I am not waiting to be surveyed for several reasons...

I think I posted some pictures of a sole crack a few months ago, and your heel crack is reminding me of that case. The more caudal the crack, the more difficult it can be to stabilize the defect. In some cases,the crack is so far back it cannot be done using the dorsal hoofwall. I have had some success incorporating the sole in the repair in an effort to stabilize the area. Just a thought, but you might consider extending the fabric in the repair you posted to wrap around the medial sole all the way to the medial frog commisure.

[westtxshoer]

I really like this method of quarter crack repair. My questions are:
1. COULD this horse go back to work with this repair?
2. Is the glue's bond to the hoof wall strong enough to withstand say, a barrel race?
3. Are the materials used expensive? I really have no idea. I have used products similar in basic design for other things but never carbon fiber. (Edited-I just checked for myself and carbon fiber tape is not expensive.)

More to come, I am sure, when I think of them.

[westtxshoer]

The thought process of floating the heel presumes that quarter cracks are a result of solar loading in the area of the crack. I am starting to question if this is in fact a causal factor in either the pathogenisis or treatment of the condition. At the very least, floating an existing crack might create additional shearing forces as the forces on either side of the floated region have very different forces and this might lead to undesirable hoof deformation.

I have thought of this before. Floating a quarter crack puts different stresses on either side of the crack. The palmar side of the crack is forced upward when the foot hits the ground whereas the caudal is forced downward by the force of the musculature and weight of the horse. Am I wrong?

[reillyshoe]

It is possible to compete with this set up, although I am obliged to state that it is not the fastest path to healing. If my horse had won the Derby and Preakness, I might consider working through the Belmont is he is sound. Everyone has an opinion on what is correct, and what is incorrect. I have put myself in more risk working through personal injury for less gain. Everything is relative.
The glue will hold, and expense is a relative term. I believe my total charge was around $250 for this horse.

Your thinking about floating is similar to mine. Of course, I don't know that either of us is correct.

[westtxshoer]

Your thinking about floating is similar to mine. Of course, I don't know that either of us is correctI am certain that I am correct. That is why I am starting a complete new shoeing practice. I'm opening the first school next month. I am going to call it "Force Shoeing" or "Shoeing with the Force." My shoeing practice will have a dress code though so be prepared. Purple jumpsuits and red Nike's, I should think.:rolleyes::D

Thanks for the post Pat and the info. Keep 'em coming.

[Ronald Aalders]

I know you are vying for the 100th spot in the "100 Top Farriers List". Doing one simple QRT crack ain't gonna get ya there.
I want that spot!

You guys don't stand a chance :D

Here's one! The first pic is the result of 2 farriers here in Holland working succesively on the crack. The last my work.

I never liked the lacing deal. I like plates and screws! Easier, cheaper, takes less time ánd can easily be removed and redone once the crack grows out.

As to floating, never float the entire hoofwall! Just bevel the hoofwall in a 45 degree angle. What you are looking for is leaving just the hoofwall and the stratum medium non weight bearing, NOT the stratum internum.



Ronald Aalders

[reillyshoe]

Ron,
Most farriers associate a jammed up coronet with an increase of solar pressure (I might not agree, but that is a common thought). Do you agree? It appears the coronet remains "jammed" even though the heel has been floated in the hoof that is growing out. Also, since one of the presumed benefits of the banana shoe is reducing the force incurred by the heels, is the floating really necessary, or more of a precaution?
I have no doubt that this works for you, I just like picking the brain of successful farriers.

[Ronald Aalders]

Ron,
Most farriers associate a jammed up coronet with an increase of solar pressure (I might not agree, but that is a common thought). Do you agree? It appears the coronet remains "jammed" even though the heel has been floated in the hoof that is growing out.

I have always been very careful not to deny the lamellar bond. A coronet gets jammed over time. The lamellar bond adapts, fixing that situation. Using aggressive methods trying to undo the jams fail to accept that the jammed coronet also caused the lamellar bond to adapt. More graphically (hey, I'm Dutch) the way I see it if we would drill a hole through both the hoofwall and P3 before the jam and check that drilling after the jam we would find that the hole in P3 is at the same spot where the hole in the hoofwall will have moved up. Floating does not undo this. It may help reverse the process though. But if we float by taking all away new damage occurs in the lamellar bond.


Also, since one of the presumed benefits of the banana shoe is reducing the force incurred by the heels, is the floating really necessary, or more of a precaution?

For me the main advantage of a banana is reducing strain on P3 because the hoofcapsule has a chance to follow DDFT's lead without strain. Lemme explain. In a natural situation P3 wants to rotate because DDFT pulls. The hoofcapsule adds a lever, thus a counterforce against rotation/heel lift. This force is absorbed by the hoofcapsule through the lamillar bond for one. DDFT pull overcomes the counterforce and heel lift occurs. All this inevitably has it's impact on the bond between P3 and the hoofwall. That bond being that lamillar stuff. That lamillar stuff however has an extra function as well. It helps stabilize the hoofwall from the inside out. When the lamillar bond gives all kind of things happen to the hoofwall. Bulging, flaring etc.

When the foot grows P3 stays at the same spot relative to the COA. (Yes the COA is a reference for proximal/distal measurements too.) However the foot grows originating at the coronet alongside the walls of P3. This can only be explained when the bond between hoofwall and P3 is a non permanent on/off situation. People smarter than I am told me that had to do with an enzyme called MMP.

For me it is enough to know that the bond between P3 and the hoofwall is resembles something like an on/off ratchet. From that its not hard to envision what would happen the the hoofwall if that same hoofwall gets pushed up from the ground.

By the way this is not the same as saying that all jams originate from ground forces going up.

Well, did I make that #100? :D


Ronald Aalders

[Jaye Perry]

Ronald Aalders-I have always been very careful not to deny the lamellar bond. A coronet gets jammed over time. The lamellar bond adapts, fixing that situation. ..... But if we float by taking all away new damage occurs in the lamellar bond.

...


agreed! maybe a tie breaker will be coming up soon!;)

[mwmyersdvm]

Just FYI everyone. The two cracks shown here could have been more easily repaired with better mechanics by using the Nolan Hoof Plate. The plate uses the entire hoof capsule from caudal quarter to opposite caudal quarter for support thus distributing the forces over the majority of the hoof capsule rather than isolating it to a section. I have great results with its use in hoof cracks. These are beautiful repairs, but the plate would make them faster, easier, and mechanically more sound. It would also make the first one considerably less expensive in time and materials.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.

[Cubbie Fan]

Pat,

What type of glue did you use and where did did you get it and the fiberglass tube?

[Travis Reed]

Mwmyersdvm
Just curious do you have any vested interest in the Nolan hoof plate as in financial? I notice you advise it to be a great product in more than one thread. I am by no means questioning it use I am just wondering if you think its that great of a product or are you connected with the product in any way? … or is it both you think is great and you back the product financially… I have never used the product but I do see it has its place in the Farrier industry. I also at one time was going to use it and looked it up for info and seen they had a class in Georgia @ Caseys school but the price I felt was a little to much I did not understand why they where charging for a demo on a product I was going to buy. I felt like it would be like buying a new tractor and the john Deer people charging me 500.00 for 8 hours to show me how to operate what I have bought..or vet tec charging for there help or that little DVD they give out for free

[reillyshoe]

Just FYI everyone. The two cracks shown here could have been more easily repaired with better mechanics by using the Nolan Hoof Plate. The plate uses the entire hoof capsule from caudal quarter to opposite caudal quarter for support thus distributing the forces over the majority of the hoof capsule rather than isolating it to a section. I have great results with its use in hoof cracks. These are beautiful repairs, but the plate would make them faster, easier, and mechanically more sound. It would also make the first one considerably less expensive in time and materials.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.

The mechanics are not the same. The sutures allow for the crack to be pulled together before stabilizing with the additional reinforcing layers. If the crack was more stabile, I would have saturated fabric with adhesive with a goal of stabilizing the hoof. I think this process is easier than the Nolan Hoof Plate, provides similar reinforcement, and (as it molds to the foot) fits better. To each their own.

[Jaye Perry]

The mechanics are not the same. The sutures allow for the crack to be pulled together before stabilizing with the additional reinforcing layers. If the crack was more stabile, I would have staurated fabric with adhesive witha goal of stabilizing the hoof. I think tthis process is easier than the Nolan Hoof Plate, provides similar reinforcement, and (as it molds to the foot fits better. To each their own.

Don't type angry! You mis-spell too much!:eek::D:D:D

[reillyshoe]

Not angry, driving back from horse show. Keyboard keeps bouncing around.

[Jaye Perry]

Not angry, driving back from horse show. Keyboard keeps bouncing around.

OHHH , , , O.F.K.:rolleyes::D

[mwmyersdvm]

I have been using hoof plates a few years now and have been quite impressed with the results. I have been assisting Mike with the plates for about two years and am not financially compensated at this time although this may change in the near future. I find it curious that I also tout Natural Balance, Redden protocols, and the occasional Ramey trim and no one seems to have any misgivings. I only bring it up because it does have excellent results in my hands and I do believe it to be quite beneficial.

That said, I do understand the statement that the mechanics of this repair and the hoof plate are different and I do agree. However, the distribution of the repair over a larger area of hoof wall I do feel is more beneficial than the previous repairs that have been done with other materials. One repairs bone fractures with as much bone on either side of the fracture as possible, so this is similar. I have seen serious cracks that have left horses three legged lame (virtually carrying the limb) repaired with the plate and left the application and headed back out to work. Also, the plate has Equilox or Adhere applied under and over it so it does conform exactly to the hoof. A simple misunderstanding of the application process.

I also understand the concern of taking a course on applying a device, but my above statement shows one advantage of this course. It also delves into the theory of its application and development and is not just a simple matter of nailing on a plate of steel across a hoof. One can certainly learn how to do it remotely without the cost, but one can also do that for every AFA convention and other seminars that are delivered, but that really does not replace the opportunity to get wiht the developer of the device and play devil's advocate and get every question answered especially those you hadn't considered until you got there and got started.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.

[reillyshoe]

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s224/reillyshoe/DSC03912.jpg

This repair extends from the coronet to the ground, and through the fabric in the shoe, extends from the medial heel to the lateral heel. The surface area of this repair is much larger than the Nolan Hoof Plate (which is about an 1 1/4" wide at the heel). The hoof plate certainly would not extend from the coronet to the ground, correct? This is part of the ability to conform to the hoof to which I was referring in my earlier post.

I don't doubt that the Nolan plate is easy and effective in your hands. In my shop, the use of fabrics and acrylics is common and relatively inexpensive. I would also disagree with your assessment of the hoof plate as "mechanically more sound" than the repair I used.

[Travis Reed]

DVM
am not financially compensated at this time although this may change in the near future.

Now how your recon a old country bumpkin like myself was able to figure that one out..
I dang sure aint no Matlock.. But what did stick me funny was that you would push this product in this particular case. As Mr Reilly pointed out.. Excuse me As Pat pointed out the Nolan Hoof plate I feel and I think Pat also feels just would not suffice in this particular case. I have no bones with the hoof plate and I damn sure not going to try to match wits with a DVM but IMHO I think Pat made more than a better choice for his method of repairing this crack on this day…

DVM
I find it curious that I also tout Natural Balance, Redden protocols, and the occasional Ramey trim and no one seems to have any misgivings.

No misgivings here I noticed that you do point them out also but when you point these methods out the crime seems to fit the punishment.. As noted above I just plain out don’t think that the hoof plate would be a better choice … I sure hope you don’t think I was challenging you in any way... its just as I have been reading and noted you recommending the hoof plate when it just seemed maybe a better way might work ..thats all nothing more nothing less I hope yall make millions..

But if yall need a advertising agent I sure can think of some better ways. I do charge a nominal fee though. The first place we will start is that frapin $500 dollar clinic to glue on this plate..

i will give this jewel for free....let the product speak for itself

[chad rice]

I have had a good bit of experience with the hoof plate from working at the Casey School and FNRC. In seeing both the good and bad of it I would have to agree that Mr. Rileys approach was probably the best.

The only thing I had a question on is the fact that there was infection in the crack and I did not see any opening for that to drain or for medication to be applied. Did you feel that you got most of the infection when you cleaned the crack, or do you not feel like the infection could have migrated around the foot once you had it stabilized.

I am certainly not questioning what you did I was just wandering if that is a possibility.

Thanks, Chad

[Travis Reed]

chad go back and look it over good its hard to see but what you are talking about he did just that Pat will have to explain it

but here is what he said.....................The top and bottom of the repair were left exposed, for treatment/flusing if necessary

[chad rice]

Thanks Travis,

I was glancing pretty quickly and just missed that. It is hard to see in the picture.

[Travis Reed]

Chad
Seeing how you are really familiar with the Casey school and all that goes wit it….what all is involved in that 500 dollar coarse.

February 28-Georgia
Shoeing Foundered Horses. How-To apply the Nolan Hoof Plate to relieve the pain. Farriers' National Research Center & School in LaFayette, Georgia.
Farriers $495.00 (includes Introductory kit and DVD $110 value)

Before anyone starts to think I am running the school, class, or the Caseys down I have no intrest in that I am just curious on what all I would get for my $500.00

How long is the class?
Is it one on one ?
If not how many are in the class?
Are horse owners welcome?
I know you get $110 value but whats the other $390.00 go to?

[chad rice]

Travis the classes are usually pretty small with maybe 2 or 3 shoers. You will get to apply a plate to a foundered horse and work one on one with Mike as you do so.

I am going to be totally honest with you and say that I am not a fan of these clinics. What I have gathered from them is that you don't trim the foot of a foundered horse you just apply these plates and he will be fine. Mike Nolan came across a great idea by binding the laminae from the top of the foot and not just the bottom. He, in my opinion, should not be doing clinics on founder and laminitis.

These classes really don't go into depth about different pathologies that the plate can be used for. I have stated this several times up there but have seen no change.

I am not trying to discourage this product by any way, but I personally would not spend the money.

Hope this helps, Chad

P.S. where are you located in Alabama

[Travis Reed]

Chad I would like to say I admire the fact that you make no bones about that you like and think Ralph is a good man and you don’t apologize for that… that being said you call it like you see it and don’t apologize for that either. IMHO that is a rare find. I hope you stay on horseshooes.com and if they loose you at the school it will be there lose ...I think you bring a realistic balance to the school…thanks for being up front and honest and I live on the outskirts of Birmingham but do my business in the Birmingham metro area…

[westtxshoer]

The Nolan hoof plate is $40 plus adhesive. Stainless steel mesh is $2 ft., carbon fiber tape $5 yard, plus adhesive. I don't see how this approach is more expensive than applying the Nolan Hoof Plate.

[mwmyersdvm]

I will concur I could have overstated my case on the plate being a 'better' repair choice as many choices have to do with what has worked for each of us in the past and what we have experience with. However, the use of differing materials in the repair will cause differing forces through the hoof. Just a consideration. I have used this sort of repair as well as DalRic cuffs for attachment of shoes in cases of poor hoof wall integrity and have found, in my hands, the plate to be superior in getting the job done with the most rapid hoof growth, stability of the attached package, and comfort of the hof post application. Just my experience.

I don't do enough of these types of repairs to buy the fabric and other products in bulk, so my estimation of the cost is different than others, so I can see where that may apply.

The training session will likely change for more indepth educational experiences and other uses of the plate. Correct trims will be stressed more in the future. These discussions are presently ongoing so look for some considerable improvements in the near future.

I am also entering into discussions for actual controlled research to be done with the plate for those interested. If it works out, there should be some real data forthcoming on measureable benefits (or not) from its use. It is always good to know a bit more about what a product or device does or does not actually do so a more informed decision can be made for its use in a given situation.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.

[chad rice]

The training session will likely change for more indepth educational experiences and other uses of the plate. Correct trims will be stressed more in the future. These discussions are presently ongoing so look for some considerable improvements in the near future.M.W. Meyers

I am glad that somebody is going to improve this. This product will go by the wayside if something does not change.

I am also entering into discussions for actual controlled research to be done with the plate for those interested. If it works out, there should be some real data forthcoming on measureable benefits (or not) from its use. It is always good to know a bit more about what a product or device does or does not actually do so a more informed decision can be made for its use in a given situation.M.W. Meyers
There has been some field research, but it is not very well documented. It needs to be more controlled and indepth on what the device actually does in certain situations. I will agree with you on the rapid hoof growth, I think people would be amazed at what it does.

[Travis Reed]

Doc glad to see some changes coming as I stated before I feel it has its place in the industry. I feel from the feed back I have seen so far it may have more uses than what I may truly know. I look forward to what is in store in the near future. With a in depth clinic and a full explanation of its possible uses to the point I feel I can recoup my money back in a reasonable time I would have no problem paying the $495.00 I hope you did not take my feed back as running the product down, but as it was meant just feedback and im glad it did not fall on def ears. Thanks in advance and for your contribution to the forum

[Ronald Aalders]

The training session will likely change for more indepth educational experiences and other uses of the plate. Correct trims will be stressed more in the future. These discussions are presently ongoing so look for some considerable improvements in the near future.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.

I like a plate/screw combination as well. I just fail to see why the hoofplate is superior over a cut up roadsign.


Ronald Aalders

[Kelly Case]

I along with Chad have done quite a bit of work with the hoofplate and it does have its merits, one thing that we found was that the binding action of the laminea created by nailing into the hoof plate is extremely beneficial in treating laminitis and full blown founder.
A simple explanation is the hoofplate acts like a huge washer for the nails creating an even pressure over the horny wall and helps bind the distended laminea back together thermal images show a return of normal blood flow in the hoof.
We did some experiments here at ShurShod using the hoof plate in conjunction with the heart bar to support the coffin bone and have had some awesome results.

My problem with the hoof plate is that I personally have an issue with throwing a ton of screws into an already damaged and weakened hoof wall and I have seen quite a number of quicks which in turn cause abscessing because of the screw depth and placement. Now I could be wrong here but I was taught to do as little damage as possible to the horny structure, so we (Max and I) started experimenting with different methods of binding the laminea in a less invasive manner and have come up with a method that at this time seems to be working quite well, though the study is ongoing.

To touch on what Chad was saying about the trim I have to agree wholeheartedly, that the hoof needs to be trimmed and brought back to as close to normal as possible. I don’t understand Mike’s theory on leaving the hoof untrimmed with low heels and just applying the plate and a shoe. I also question leaving the horse go for 16 weeks between trims and hoofplate applications, especially considering that the hoof plate does seem to promote hoof growth.
Once our studies are far enough along that I feel comfortable with them I will be putting together an article with our data and images (radiographs, thermal images still pics and video) that explain what we have done.

Ron, the road sign will work but the fine for cutting one up isn’t worth it!!! LOL I find that a roll of plumbing strap that you can buy at the hardware store will do the same thing as the plate and is actually easier to work with than the plate itself and is more cost effective.

[NicktheShoer]

I along with Chad have done quite a bit of work with the hoofplate and it does have its merits, one thing that we found was that the binding action of the laminea created by nailing into the hoof plate is extremely beneficial in treating laminitis and full blown founder.
A simple explanation is the hoofplate acts like a huge washer for the nails creating an even pressure over the horny wall and helps bind the distended laminea back together thermal images show a return of normal blood flow in the hoof.

Sooooooooooooooo... I have to ask... Are you screwing the plate to the bone?

[Rick Burten]

......., one thing that we found was that the binding action of the laminea created by nailing into the hoof plate ...
Please detail how you are nailing into the plate, and why.
A simple explanation is the hoofplate acts like a huge washer for the nails creating an even pressure over the horny wall and helps bind the distended laminea back together thermal images show a return of normal blood flow in the hoof.
Once the laminae have disinterdigitated, how can anything bind them back together?
My problem with the hoof plate is that I personally have an issue with throwing a ton of screws into an already damaged and weakened hoof wall and I have seen quite a number of quicks which in turn cause abscessing because of the screw depth and placement.
Ever consider using shorter screws, fewer of them, and a methacrylate to hold the plate in place?
Now I could be wrong here but I was taught to do as little damage as possible to the horny structure, so we (Max and I) started experimenting with different methods of binding the laminea in a less invasive manner and have come up with a method that at this time seems to be working quite well, though the study is ongoing.
Are you actually binding the laminae together again or merely stabilizing the hoof capsule? If it is the former, please explain, mechanically and anatomically, how you can cause this action to occur.
I also question leaving the horse go for 16 weeks between trims and hoofplate applications, especially considering that the hoof plate does seem to promote hoof growth.
Perhaps that is a question best asked of and explained by Mr. Nolan. After all, he is the one with the most experience with the protocol, right?
Once our studies are far enough along that I feel comfortable with them I will be putting together an article with our data and images (radiographs, thermal images still pics and video) that explain what we have done.
I'll look forward to seeing the article. Will you be submitting it to the AFJ?
Also, the use of thermography is still rather controversial so I would hope that the other parts of the study will be better grounded.
I find that a roll of plumbing strap that you can buy at the hardware store will do the same thing as the plate and is actually easier to work with than the plate itself and is more cost effective.
What studies have you done to confirm this observation?

[chad rice]

Mr. Burten, while we are on the subject I was wondering your thoughts on the hoof plate. I don't know if you have used one or not, but I would like to hear an opinion from someone who has the knowledge of anatomy and the experience with laminitis as you.


Thanks, Chad

[Rick Burten]

Mr. Burten, while we are on the subject I was wondering your thoughts on the hoof plate. I don't know if you have used one or not, but I would like to hear an opinion from someone who has the knowledge of anatomy and the experience with laminitis as you.


Thanks, Chad
My experience with the plate is limited. That said, I've used bands and the like for much the same purpose and for me, its a mixed bag of results. Its not something I reach for first and foremost, but its nice to have the option.

And Chad, et al(exceptions noted), even though we're not going to hold hands, etc, its OK to call me by my first name. :)

[mwmyersdvm]

There has been some field research, but it is not very well documented. It needs to be more controlled and indepth on what the device actually does in certain situations. I will agree with you on the rapid hoof growth, I think people would be amazed at what it does.[/QUOTE]

There have been a number of case studies, but these do not qualify as research. The plan is to use each individual horse as his own control to see if the plate actually makes a difference and what that difference consists of. It has been observed that the sole depth is increased, heel angles have improved, and the solar cup has improved. These parameters and others will be measured with the opposing digit being the control on the same horse. Horses will be selected for hooves of similar conformation bilaterally. Any dissimilarities will be handled by using the plate on the worst of the two hooves by radiographic measurements using the Metron system. Then the opposing digit will be treated to see the effect while the original test digit will remain in a normal shoeing mode to see if the effect is lasting. Enough horses will be used so a statistical analysis will determine if the changes seen are actually significant and not random or biased.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.

[Gabino]

I had good results with an aluminium plate fixed with Equilox or only reinforcing the hoof wall with equilox and fiber glass.


http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7632/abruzzo3.jpg (http://img199.imageshack.us/i/abruzzo3.jpg/)

[mwmyersdvm]

[QUOTE=Gabinoherrador;166128]I had good results with an aluminium plate fixed with Equilox or only reinforcing the hoof wall with equilox and fiber glass.

We have all had good results with a variety of appliances, but I have also had good results with no appliance and just a correct trim as well. So there is no control and no way of knowing how many things would work or why. So I do hope to get this project off the ground in the next few weeks and see if there is a definite benefit from the application of the appliance. I would love to test them all, but this is the only one that runs the possibility of being funded.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.

[Ronald Aalders]

So far I have not read about the mechanical effects the Nolan hoofplate or any other plate applied dorsally has on the hoof. I'm fail to see any mechanical advantage of the plate applied that way. Except for a dorsal crack that is. Could someone enlighten me?


Ronald Aalders

[Gabino]

Uff..a Spanish man try explain to nederland man in English language!!

The wall goes down and curved when the horse is walking. If the wall is poor (Lamennes or bad quality) it curved much and the laminae is pain. The aluminium plate nailed or fixed reinforces the wall and the dorsal wall can't go down.

The horse of the picture,has a extremely bad quality horn and their hoof wall is very very bad. It's extremely pain and sore. After heart bar+pad+impression stuff the horse is more comfortable,but even is pain. The P3 goes down and makes traction to laminae.The aluminium plate reinforce the dorsal wall and the horse improves.

Ron,go in holliday in Spain. You will learn Spanish and we will can speak farriery conversation and drink beer.

[Ronald Aalders]

Vacation in Spain sounds good to me!

I can see where a poor lamellar bond leaves the dorsal hoofwall open for distorsion by ground reaction forces acting upon it every time the foot breaks over. The hoofwall may well flare dorsally.

I just wondered if this effect is not better addressed by reducing those break over forces rather than strengthening the dorsal hoofwall. Not that I see any disadvantage to applying a plate that way other than we take away an indicator showing us breakover forces need to be reduced further.


Ronald Aalders

[Jaye Perry]

Vacation in Spain sounds good to me!

I can see where a poor lamellar bond leaves the dorsal hoofwall open for distorsion by ground reaction forces acting upon it every time the foot breaks over. The hoofwall may well flare dorsally.

I just wondered if this effect is not better addressed by reducing those break over forces rather than strengthening the dorsal hoofwall. Not that I see any disadvantage to applying a plate that way other than we take away an indicator showing us breakover forces need to be reduced further.


Ronald Aalders

Forces in the toe sometimes needs force and then sometimes reduction of force. Depends on the cracks, heels and conformation.
:)

[Ronald Aalders]

Thanks Jaye, that's a big help ;)


Ronald Aalders