Need some info on this hoof

[Hillbilly898]

I went and trimed this horse today and found this and was wondering if it is white line or seedy toe. I poured iodine in it and then packed it with cotton ball. Any advice would be wonderfull. You can stick a city head 5 nail down in it and it doesn't bother the horse and was a wide gap between the sole and hoof wall. It goes all the way around the toe and toward the heel but only about half the way to heal




http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s20/hillbilly898/IMG00177.jpg

[Hillbilly898]

I can get more pics if that would help lots of views and not comments

[Rick Burten]

Looks to me like the horse has had a bout of laminitis and what you are seeing is the disinterdigitated laminae. I don't see any infection, so its not seedy toe, and WLD presents differently that what is pictured.

I'm going to take the leap of faith that this is a 'before' trim photo. I'd like to see some 'after' trim photos as well as some views of the hoof on the ground.

When you take those photos, please have the horse standing squarely(cannon bones vertical] on flat, hard, level ground such as asphalt or concrete.

From the photo, I get the impression that this might be a rather thin soled horse who could be somewhat problematic to correctly trim and still remain barefoot.

Does this horse have any soundness issues, especially right after being trimmed?

Rick

[Jim Sweeney]

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj286/JimSweeney/IMG_0603.jpg
This is a foot I dug around in the other day. Had a little seedy toe action, and I chased it up and it died out pretty quick. I got into a hoof wall seperation next to it and dug around eventually to the heel. When I took this picture I could still put my finger in pretty far. One thing I find with any advanced WLD is a very ominous hollow sound when the tools hit the foot. Right or wrong I usually do most of my prospecting with the shoe still on. This one had a very tight four week shoe on and I pulled 3 lat nails and tried to find the extent of the damage. I put a treatment package on it and will shoe it soon. Along with the hollow sound I mentioned The more advanced cases I have worked on are almost always sore after trimming and shoeing even when they are sound in use before and after. From the pic it looks like as Rick pointed out, (big word) Laminae.

[Rick Burten]

From the pic it looks like as Rick pointed out, (big word) Laminae.
"Disinterdigitated":) I take full responsibility[and blame] for coining that word several years ago. I just kinda like the sound of it, the way it ties up your tongue, and its descriptive nature. :o:D

Rick

[Rick Talbert]

"Disinterdigitated":) I take full responsibility[and blame] for coining that word several years ago. I just kinda like the sound of it, the way it ties up your tongue, and its descriptive nature. :o:D

Rick

"disinterdigitated" LOL, I love it!:)

[Hillbilly898]

Thanks for the inforamtion guys

[Jim Sweeney]

"Disinterdigitated":) I take full responsibility[and blame] for coining that word several years ago. I just kinda like the sound of it, the way it ties up your tongue, and its descriptive nature. :o:D

Rick
I did not go running for my text book although I was a little troubled that such a cool word had escaped me all these years. Glad I did not grind on like I actually knew what it meant. I would submit it to Webster's if I were you.

[Jack Evers]

Rick -- a natural sequipedalianist

[Jay Mickle]

Rick -- a natural sequipedalianist

From a truly orthogonal thinker.

[Hillbilly898]

I am gonna be going back monday to work on this horse some more. I will get pics of what I am gonna be doing to it.

[PerformanceHorseshoeing]

Call me crazy but it looks like there could be some retained sole there.

[irishcas]

Call me crazy but it looks like there could be some retained sole there.

Nick:

Where do you see retained sole?

Hillbilly:

I'm with Rick, if what he is saying is laminitis. I would like to see more pix, dorsal and lateral shots.

What is the horses age, breed, environment, diet, exercise regime?

[Bill Lansing]

It looks like a foot that will be difficult to gather up on those rocks! :eek:

[Jake Whitman]

Bill, I think those rocks will eventually gather that foot up, sooner than later , by the looks of it.

[Hillbilly898]

The horse is said to be around 4 years old and the guy just bought it. I will be going monday and I will get lots of pics of it. I have a another farrier that will be going with me to look at it and help me with it. I will have lots of pics. Thanks guys for all the inforamtion.

[Hillbilly898]

ok here is some more pics of the foot after it was worked on today.The other farrier that went with me said it was seedy toe also had been some trush at one time and a little founder also. So here is the pic after the shoeing. Comments are welcome.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s20/hillbilly898/hoof2.jpg



http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s20/hillbilly898/hoof1.jpg

[Hillbilly898]

Ok guys I need some more information. The owner called today and said horse is limping on one foot. It is the foot where I had to grind more hoof off. I did go out and look at the horse. Limps at a trot or cnter but not at walk. Picked on the foot to look at it and the sole is pushing down past the shoe. As of right now it is not past the shoe only about half the thickness of the shoe. THe other foot is fine no movement. I told the owner we need xrays. I am gonna turn the shoe backwards tommrow to relieve the pressure. What is yall's input on this.

[calshoer]

Shoe it basically the same as for founder.
Relieve ALL sole pressure,
Support the frog and rear part of the sole ,
Then you can remove all the wall over the diseased area to get air into it to kill the fungus.
Clips may be needed too, to help prevent spreading and flattening of the foot because of the removed hoofwall.

[Hillbilly898]

Ok here is a update on the horse. The owner did take her to vet and there is rotation on the foot. It is a slight rotation not real bad. I will get the pics on here as soon as I can. She had been foundered in the past and has a bad case of seedy toe.

[Hillbilly898]

Ok guys here is a update on the horse and some xray's the first one was five weeks ago and the second was yesterday. Would like input on what yall think if it is getting better or not. The vet marked the hoof where he wanted me to trim it down to.

First pic

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s20/hillbilly898/horsehoof2.jpg



Second Pic

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s20/hillbilly898/horsefoot.jpg

[calshoer]

If you trim the heels that far, be prepared to probably put some wedge pad on the foot after it is trimmed to replace some of the angle.

In my opinion, the tall angle of the pastern indicates that trimming the heels that much without the option of shoeing with a wedge may misalign the coffin joint and pull too much on the flexor tendons, further rotating the bone.

Also,for the horses comfort and safety, I do one foot at a time on a horse like that so as to not force him to stand on a trimmed after making with that much change with all his weight on it, foot while I do the other foot. You can actually injure a chronic laminitic one by forcing them to stand on it barefoot after removing that much heel.
I watch and see how the horse stands on it after it is trimmed. If he he can not put the heel on the ground easily witth with foot straight under him not pointing it forward then he needs a wedge.
If he stands square on it on it and gets the heel to the ground willingly without problem then he may not need a wedge.

Also be SURE that you trim the heels only from the place the vet drew the line back, not from anywhere further forward on the foot. It is extremely important to preserve the sole over the front part of the coffin bone,and to make sure the shoe does not contact the front portion of the sole anywhere.

A common error in trimming heels like that is to begin the nipper cut too far forward on the foot, then when you try to rasp it flat it ends up making rasped flat areas on the sole, causing sole poressure from the shoe.

Hope this helps.