Re: >Tree

[ Follow Ups ] [ Hoof Conformation and Balance ]

Posted by Alexandra Wikner on July 18, 2003 at 01:30:40:

In Reply to: Re: >Tree posted by Anne (Tree) Coley on July 17, 2003 at 23:17:47:

First - about the the horse clinic. I was suprised and a bit shocked when I just got an answeringmachine telling med they had closed between July 12th and August 1 st... They have never done that before, and they are Northen Europes most respectable clinic. Thay are also the hospital when ALL of Swedens veterinarians are educated. And - here is the very sad part - due to financial problems, they have been closing down ALL their emergency unit. They used to have 24/7 sandby, taking emergencys at any time. last december, they shut down all emergency units at evenings, nights and weekends and they do not take emergencys at daytime either if it is a risk that the horse needs to be kept overnight. As they don´t have any staff on site dureing evernings and nights anymore, they can´t keep horses in overnight if the horses needs attention at nights. So they only horses that stays overnight now is the one needing a bone scan, and those who is in any form of research, ie they only keep horses overnight that just nedds to be stabled, not the ones that nedd checkups or attention. This clinic covers more than half of Sweden, and the nearest clinic with 24/7 emergency unit is 150 kilometeres sout. Meaning I have a 4 hour drive there.. The ones in northen Sweden had 400 km to the nearest emergency unit before, now they have 550 kilometres, meaning horses that is in need of an emergency operation to survive has to be put down. It is totally unacceptable, but nothing horseowners can do about it.. =/

It was some foals that didn´t make it due to too far distance to go (ie taking to long time) to get intensive care och a lifesaving emergency op.

We have "districts veterinarians" on call 24/7 covering all parts of Sweden. So you should be able to get a veterinarian out at any time, but they can only do those things that can be done in normal stable environment. They cannot for example save a horse with a twisted gut with an operation, or other operations. Neither can they fix broken legs, take x-rays or so. AND, the districts veterinarians should prioritate farmanimals in the first hand. Horses counts as "pleasureanimals", and if the veterinarian gets two emergencycalls, for example a mare in labour with difficulties, and a cow in labour with difficulties, he has to go to the cow first. So if you are hell unlucky, you don´t stand a chance to get emergency treatment whitin four hours, wich could mean the difference between life and death =/

Anyway, back to the issue, just couldn´t keep myself from complaining a bit..

Then I will wait with the x-rays until the clinic opens again. And if there isnt any improvement by august 1:st, then I´ll have a set of x-rays taken to tell how her hooves looks.

Regarding the ground. We had a pretty wet spring here, but most of the time I managed to keep the mare and filly on solid ground, but there was some weeks, when she was about 2 weeks old, that it did get a bit soft and slippery due to heave rain. Because of the bad weather (cold spells, strong winds and heavy rain) the filly went out in the fiels for approx. 2 hours at a time, then brought in before she was laying down, and then released out in the field for another two hours when she had rested, and so on. At 2½ weeks of age she got pneumonia, and couldn´t be released out for about 2 weeks. I walked her in hand on concrete indoors so she wouldn´t just stand on soft bedding.

But from 1 months old she has been out on grass 19 hours a day, except those odd days with heavy, cold rain when she has been stabled overnight. And all that the time ground have been hard and dry. (Now she is 3-m-o). But the ground must be drier now then a month ago, even though it looks the same. But as we haven´t seen rain since june here, the ground must have dried even more. But it looks and feels as hard and dry as it did a month before, so it hasn´t went from soft to hard, but hard to harder. But at her first month of life, she was mostly on soft ground (bedding). She doesn´t seem to be flat soled, or sore, but of course that is still a posibility, but there is now evidence of that that can bee seen anyway.

She likes the stretching though, she actulla stretches a lot herself, ie when I stretch, she "pushes intoit" to increase the stretch. So i really hope it will help. I´ll keep you updated!

: : Tree,

: : Thank you so much for taking time to explain and help me with this, i really apprichiate it.

: Alexandra,

: It helps me learn too so I don't mind spending the time offering help when I can.

:
: : Just a note - it was my farrier and not vet that was out yesterday.

: Oops, I guess I was confused. Thanks for correcting me!

:
: : My farrier DID mention that he didn´t quite "buy" the concept that it was ONLY the DDFT involved, and that muscle and tendons interact. He also said that DDFT attach to the muckles near the elbow, and he adviced med to massage thos muscles. They did feel soft and fine though, but as my farrier said "It cannot hur massaging them, and then you immediatley will notice if she starts to tightened up in the muscles".

: This is wise to keep in mind and do for the filly.

:
: : According to x-rays, it is no problems taking thos, BUT I would like to wait until early aygysto to do that (if condidition doesn´t worsen of coure). The horse clinic that is best with those kind of questions, and that have good farriers on-site is closed down due to vacations. They reopen for appointment makings at July 28th again, ie in 1½ week.

: What timing for vacations and the clinic to close down! Here in the USA, it's always an emergency when you need a vet and they're off on vacation or busy with calls! It never fails!

:
: : I can have the x-rays taken at another clinic, but it would involve of a longer trip (I have 80 kilometres to the big clinic, and other, smaller clinics are about 120 kilometres away. And it is a tremendous heat her with degrees peaking at 50 degress celsius in the sun, så I want to transport the foal and mare as short distance as possible too)and they don´t have any experince about those problems.

: I think this is wise also.

: : Do you think its is OK to wait two weeks with the X-rays if the condition doesn´t worse?

: If it were my filly and things weren't getting any worse, I'd wait too.

:
: : It is possible she has pain in her heels, but there is no evidence of that that can bee sen at this stage anyway, she stand level and bears her weight even, she walks, trots and galopps sound and she stands on the complete hoof (ie heels down the ground). She actually likes the stretch though, and shifts more weight on to increase the stretching when I do it. But she could be ont of those with HIGH tolerance of pain, ie it should be atremendous pain before they show it. (My 8-y-0 gelding is like that, he was safe and sound even with a puncture wound that penetreated the bursa and created an infection all the way up in the bone.)

:
: Heel pain indicators can go unnoticed for quite sometime in the early stages. The changes can be so slight until the pain is bad enough to cause more side effects or appear as an obvious lameness issue. I am amazed by those with a real sensitive eye who can see the subtle changes before more obvious things start happening. Horses live with levels of heel pain on a daily basis and still manage to carry on in spite of it until the levels of pain are more than they can deal with. Side effects are often considered separate problems when they can often times be symptoms of the original problem. Horse can learn to adapt to pain and alter how they will use themselves. Over the long-term, they pay the price of compensating. Many of these problems are thought to be age related...a part of aging in other words.

:
: : About the ground. I can only speak for my foal (i only have one), and she developed this when out on very hard ground. This summer has been very dry and hot, and the ground is very dry and hard. And that is the fact all over this part of the country. But I have no idea of what ground others foal has been on before. But the grazing her has been exceptionallt good this year. Even my 8-y-0 gelding that never before has showed any signs of putting on excessive weight even when out grazing, he has putted on a lot of extra weight. So its very good nutrional value of the grazing this year (but it has peaked now and will sink by time now), and maybe that could be the factor that gives a link to one of the answers wy so many foals her shows this condition. I don´t know. My filly was big at birth and have since birth been growing very fast. But in a steady rythm, but way too fast. And my amateur-theory is that the fastgrowing is the key to why she has got DDFT. But of course I can bee wrong, but I thought my farrier or me should have noticed anything else, as she is handled daily, and has met the farrier frequently since 8 days old. Well, maybe I never get an answer that is SURE, but as you say, a set of X-rays could be real helpful.
: : But I am sorry to say, that when I have noticed some foalowners that they might check their foals feet because they show the same signs as my foal does, they just have replied that "It isn´t anything wrong with either mine or your foal, thay are just growing" *sigh*

:
: Would the filly have normally been on softer footing under better conditions? Our area of the USA had been experiencing dry conditions in previous years due to very little rain. Now we're experiencing very wet conditions so footing has turned quite soft and sloppy. If your filly had originally been on soft footing and now it's turned hard it could alter her hooves. Flat soled horses are ok on soft footing but will find harder surfaces difficult to travel on without being sore. Could this be possible with your filly's soles?

: Tree

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: First - about the the horse clinic. I was suprised and a bit shocked when I just got an answeringmachine telling med they had closed between July 12th and August 1 st... They have never done that before, and they are Northen Europes most respectable clinic. Thay are also the hospital when ALL of Swedens veterinarians are educated. And - here is the very sad part - due to financial problems, they have been closing down ALL their emergency unit. They used to have 24/7 sandby, taking emergencys at any time. last december, they shut down all emergency units at evenings, nights and weekends and they do not take emergencys at daytime either if it is a risk that the horse needs to be kept overnight. As they don´t have any staff on site dureing evernings and nights anymore, they can´t keep horses in overnight if the horses needs attention at nights. So they only horses that stays overnight now is the one needing a bone scan, and those who is in any form of research, ie they only keep horses overnight that just nedds to be stabled, not the ones that nedd checkups or attention. This clinic covers more than half of Sweden, and the nearest clinic with 24/7 emergency unit is 150 kilometeres sout. Meaning I have a 4 hour drive there.. The ones in northen Sweden had 400 km to the nearest emergency unit before, now they have 550 kilometres, meaning horses that is in need of an emergency operation to survive has to be put down. It is totally unacceptable, but nothing horseowners can do about it.. =/ : It was some foals that didn´t make it due to too far distance to go (ie taking to long time) to get intensive care och a lifesaving emergency op. : We have "districts veterinarians" on call 24/7 covering all parts of Sweden. So you should be able to get a veterinarian out at any time, but they can only do those things that can be done in normal stable environment. They cannot for example save a horse with a twisted gut with an operation, or other operations. Neither can they fix broken legs, take x-rays or so. AND, the districts veterinarians should prioritate farmanimals in the first hand. Horses counts as "pleasureanimals", and if the veterinarian gets two emergencycalls, for example a mare in labour with difficulties, and a cow in labour with difficulties, he has to go to the cow first. So if you are hell unlucky, you don´t stand a chance to get emergency treatment whitin four hours, wich could mean the difference between life and death =/ : Anyway, back to the issue, just couldn´t keep myself from complaining a bit.. : Then I will wait with the x-rays until the clinic opens again. And if there isnt any improvement by august 1:st, then I´ll have a set of x-rays taken to tell how her hooves looks. : Regarding the ground. We had a pretty wet spring here, but most of the time I managed to keep the mare and filly on solid ground, but there was some weeks, when she was about 2 weeks old, that it did get a bit soft and slippery due to heave rain. Because of the bad weather (cold spells, strong winds and heavy rain) the filly went out in the fiels for approx. 2 hours at a time, then brought in before she was laying down, and then released out in the field for another two hours when she had rested, and so on. At 2½ weeks of age she got pneumonia, and couldn´t be released out for about 2 weeks. I walked her in hand on concrete indoors so she wouldn´t just stand on soft bedding. : But from 1 months old she has been out on grass 19 hours a day, except those odd days with heavy, cold rain when she has been stabled overnight. And all that the time ground have been hard and dry. (Now she is 3-m-o). But the ground must be drier now then a month ago, even though it looks the same. But as we haven´t seen rain since june here, the ground must have dried even more. But it looks and feels as hard and dry as it did a month before, so it hasn´t went from soft to hard, but hard to harder. But at her first month of life, she was mostly on soft ground (bedding). She doesn´t seem to be flat soled, or sore, but of course that is still a posibility, but there is now evidence of that that can bee seen anyway. : She likes the stretching though, she actulla stretches a lot herself, ie when I stretch, she "pushes intoit" to increase the stretch. So i really hope it will help. I´ll keep you updated! : : : Tree, : : : Thank you so much for taking time to explain and help me with this, i really apprichiate it. : : Alexandra, : : It helps me learn too so I don't mind spending the time offering help when I can. : : : : : Just a note - it was my farrier and not vet that was out yesterday. : : Oops, I guess I was confused. Thanks for correcting me! : : : : : My farrier DID mention that he didn´t quite "buy" the concept that it was ONLY the DDFT involved, and that muscle and tendons interact. He also said that DDFT attach to the muckles near the elbow, and he adviced med to massage thos muscles. They did feel soft and fine though, but as my farrier said "It cannot hur massaging them, and then you immediatley will notice if she starts to tightened up in the muscles". : : This is wise to keep in mind and do for the filly. : : : : : According to x-rays, it is no problems taking thos, BUT I would like to wait until early aygysto to do that (if condidition doesn´t worsen of coure). The horse clinic that is best with those kind of questions, and that have good farriers on-site is closed down due to vacations. They reopen for appointment makings at July 28th again, ie in 1½ week. : : What timing for vacations and the clinic to close down! Here in the USA, it's always an emergency when you need a vet and they're off on vacation or busy with calls! It never fails! : : : : : I can have the x-rays taken at another clinic, but it would involve of a longer trip (I have 80 kilometres to the big clinic, and other, smaller clinics are about 120 kilometres away. And it is a tremendous heat her with degrees peaking at 50 degress celsius in the sun, så I want to transport the foal and mare as short distance as possible too)and they don´t have any experince about those problems. : : I think this is wise also. : : : Do you think its is OK to wait two weeks with the X-rays if the condition doesn´t worse? : : If it were my filly and things weren't getting any worse, I'd wait too. : : : : : It is possible she has pain in her heels, but there is no evidence of that that can bee sen at this stage anyway, she stand level and bears her weight even, she walks, trots and galopps sound and she stands on the complete hoof (ie heels down the ground). She actually likes the stretch though, and shifts more weight on to increase the stretching when I do it. But she could be ont of those with HIGH tolerance of pain, ie it should be atremendous pain before they show it. (My 8-y-0 gelding is like that, he was safe and sound even with a puncture wound that penetreated the bursa and created an infection all the way up in the bone.) : : : : Heel pain indicators can go unnoticed for quite sometime in the early stages. The changes can be so slight until the pain is bad enough to cause more side effects or appear as an obvious lameness issue. I am amazed by those with a real sensitive eye who can see the subtle changes before more obvious things start happening. Horses live with levels of heel pain on a daily basis and still manage to carry on in spite of it until the levels of pain are more than they can deal with. Side effects are often considered separate problems when they can often times be symptoms of the original problem. Horse can learn to adapt to pain and alter how they will use themselves. Over the long-term, they pay the price of compensating. Many of these problems are thought to be age related...a part of aging in other words. : : : : : About the ground. I can only speak for my foal (i only have one), and she developed this when out on very hard ground. This summer has been very dry and hot, and the ground is very dry and hard. And that is the fact all over this part of the country. But I have no idea of what ground others foal has been on before. But the grazing her has been exceptionallt good this year. Even my 8-y-0 gelding that never before has showed any signs of putting on excessive weight even when out grazing, he has putted on a lot of extra weight. So its very good nutrional value of the grazing this year (but it has peaked now and will sink by time now), and maybe that could be the factor that gives a link to one of the answers wy so many foals her shows this condition. I don´t know. My filly was big at birth and have since birth been growing very fast. But in a steady rythm, but way too fast. And my amateur-theory is that the fastgrowing is the key to why she has got DDFT. But of course I can bee wrong, but I thought my farrier or me should have noticed anything else, as she is handled daily, and has met the farrier frequently since 8 days old. Well, maybe I never get an answer that is SURE, but as you say, a set of X-rays could be real helpful. : : : But I am sorry to say, that when I have noticed some foalowners that they might check their foals feet because they show the same signs as my foal does, they just have replied that "It isn´t anything wrong with either mine or your foal, thay are just growing" *sigh* : : : : Would the filly have normally been on softer footing under better conditions? Our area of the USA had been experiencing dry conditions in previous years due to very little rain. Now we're experiencing very wet conditions so footing has turned quite soft and sloppy. If your filly had originally been on soft footing and now it's turned hard it could alter her hooves. Flat soled horses are ok on soft footing but will find harder surfaces difficult to travel on without being sore. Could this be possible with your filly's soles? : : Tree

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