Posted by Tricia on August 14, 2003 at 14:03:35:
In Reply to: Re: What is a "sinker" or a sunk foot? posted by Patty Stiller on August 14, 2003 at 13:35:49:
: : : Today I just got the devistating news that my horse is afflicted by a condition referred by my vet as a "sinker". Is this something that could progess over time, meaning could symptoms have appeared years ago?We did lateral x-rays of both front feet, and one is effected moreso than the other. My vet called me and briefly told me what was going on and that he needed heart bars right away. I was offered no opportunity to ask any questions as to what the prognosis was, what to do (other than buteing instructions given at the time of x-rays). He informed me the x-rays could be picked up, which was odd because we had a discussion that they were his property and the only persons whom could view them were those whom he forwarded them to. I went and picked them up not knowing what a "sunk" foot was, under the impression that heart bars would solve his problem and he would fully recover. I still have a vague understanding of what the condition is. When viewing the x-ray I noticed that everything was out of order, I thought it was a poorly taken x-ray. Can that happen? The horse was not moving at the time, and if he did move could it have distorted the image so severly? If so what should I do? Am I entitled to have the vet come back out and take a new picture? I called a friend of mine who has many years experience with horses she called my vet and got answers as to what we were looking at and said he has a 50- 50 chance of recovering, however he might not ever be sound again. Upon further questioning of my farrier he advised me the chances were slimmer considering the amount of damage to the foot and past compromised issues with his feet. His prognosis was about 20% and he would suffer great pain in re-setting his shoes. Do heart bars cause as much pain and discomfort as he (my farrier) said it would? The vet also nerve blocked my horse before taking the x-rays and he was able to walk, not totally sound but he could walk. Is that a sign there is structural damage? Or if his foot is in fact sunk would he have been able to walk at all even with nerve blocks? Sorry for all the questions my horse is my life, he has been my best friend for 10 years, Please advise me on what I should do. Thank you very much for your time.
: : I just got a call from my friend, she had a x-ray technition look at the x-rays and she said they are good pictures. We all feel it is in Luckys best intrest that he is euthanized. So tomorrow tearfully I will do my beloved friend a favor and take away his pain. Thank you for any consideration.
: : Sincerely,
: : Cynthia
: For gosh sakes, do NOT euthanize your horse based on JUST the XRays!!!!!
: Althoug a 'sunk' coffin bone is certainly serous, it is not always the end of the world. And yeas, without recent baseline Xrays to compare, you have no way of telling if thos horse has has somewhat sunken coffin bones fora long long time. Some apparent 'sinking' is caused from sole thinning due to poor shoeing practices over a long time and lal the horse needs is proper hoofcare to fix it.
: The fact is that many seriously foundered horses (even some who have who have coffin bones protruding through the soles) can and do eventually recover depending on how talented and up to date the team (farrier and vet) are in treating them, and depending on the control of the underlying medical reasons for the laminitis.
: There is way too much missing information in your post to try to base a decision.
: If all you have to base your decision on are XRays, you are missing the *reasons* for the sinking, which may be treatable.
: Questions you need to answer are:
: Is it laminitis or just poor trimming or shoeing?
: What caused the laminitis in the first place?
: How old is the horse?
: Exactly what blood tests have been done? (What are the horses's insulin levels, glucose levels, thyroid, cortizol rhythm, overall cortizol levels, has he been checked accurately for for cushings syndrome? etc.
: Hww painful is he, and for how long?
: Hopw much medication has he been on and for how long?
: What is his feed program?
: What is his envoironment?
: If all of those factors have not yet been evaluated, you are missing vital information to help you make decisions and to best treat the horse.
: Also ,chronically foundered horses often go through periods of abscessing, creating great pain temporarily. Certain types of abscesing can be a normal part of the foundered hoof shedding old dead tissue, and is necessaery at times. Unfortunately that is exactly when a lot of them are put down, when in fact the abscessing is actually the turning pount to healing.
: Please, please get another opinion before you give up on your horse. Find another veterinarian who is better informed on the latest research about laminitis , and who will communicate more thoroughly to you. And switch farriers to one who understands better and newer treatment modalities (besides heart bars) which will NOT make the horse more sore. Even if using heart bars, it is not necessary or ever expected for any shoeing or other support system to create more pain. If it does it was applied wrong. In fact there are taped on support sytems you can use, as well as effective barefoot treatments IF you have the right environment to do that.
: And please be aware that more horses are euthanized because the owners can't stand to see them in pain, when in fact pain is natures best way of just getting them to lie down and thereby protect the feet from further sinking as the bones bear weight on weakened laminellar connections. . Administering pain medication is sometimes not in the best interest of the horse, especially in the long term.
: Easing the pain too much causes them to stand up and do further damage the hooves, when they should really be lying down, thereby protecting them.
: As well, there is good documentation that long term bute can cause intestinal upsets in some horses, and the resulting intestinal bacterial imbalance and toxins leaking into the bloodstream through gut lesions can further exacerbate the laminitis.
: If the underlying cause is treated effectively ,and the owner has the patience to see the horse through the rough spots during abscesing and occasional relapses , AND the farrier is extremely skilled in correctly applying the right support for the individual situation as the needs of the healing foot changes, the horse may recover.
: Please consult another team of vets before you give up. Dr Myers here does consults, as well if you let us know your general location perhaps someone here can refer you to a good laminitis expert.
: In meantime you can go to go to hopeforsoundness.com, (EDSS inc) and download the Styrofoan appllication indstructions from the tech help section (free).Go to a HOme depot or similar store and get some 2" thick, dense construction grade styrofoam ("Blue board") and tape in on the hooves as per those instructions for bone support and protection asap. Follow the instructions for adding more layers as it compresses. Many horses find great relief immediately and can get on much lower doses (or no) bute after the foot is supported .
: Patty
Patty you really are great. Cynthia, we have battled this for 2 yrs and never followed up on the suggestions Patty and Dr Myers gave us because our vet and farrier thought them overkill. Please please listen to Patty before you give up. As she mentioned, and if you read old posts here, there are glue on and tape on shoes also available. My vet and farrier wanted to give up many times - neither I nor my boy were ready. Though we have had to take a more drastic approach (we didnt get the right help soon enough) with a tenotomy just Tues - he is feeling better alread and he may even become sound enough to ride.
Best of luck to you both!