Posted by Anne (Tree) Coley on July 10, 2003 at 11:16:16:
In Reply to: Re: Eggbars Vs. Backwards shoe? posted by Jan on July 09, 2003 at 16:03:59:
: I'm always amazed at how many vets/farriers/barefoot trimmers can tell what's wrong with a horse's foot without ever having seen a radiograph. While the feet don't lie, they are only evidence of the result, not the cause in most cases.
Jan,
Radiographs can confirm what the vets/farriers/barefoot trimmers suspect. The feet are evidence and often ARE the cause for problems but not everyone recognizes the connection to hoof form/function or lack thereof.
: Well, Tree, I would think you've got that backwards. Does poor circulation in a human foot cause diabetes or does uncontrolled diabetes cause poor circulation that can result in foot problems? Will better foot care help? Sure, but it won't lessen the diabetes or the catastrophic cascade of events that will ultimately result if the diabetic condition is not addressed.
Well Jan, I may or may not have anything backwards. It's all according to your own point of view. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? We're now comparing the human foot to a horse's? Sorry, my mom has diabetes and yet her feet do not resemble a horse's. My mother's father had diabetes as well. I'm subject to getting it IF I don't take care of myself! My mom's eating habits are terrible and she's wearing more weight than her frame should be carrying. Eating habits do make a difference and so do exercise and other healthy habits. My neighbor was diagnosed with diabetes (type 2) and yet she's now off insulin since she's dropped over 100 pounds with better eating habits. Her Doctor has been supervising this. I'm thrilled for her!
As far as relating this to horses, Cushings get's its start how? What events in a horse's life lead up to the developement of Cushings? More people just assume it's genetics but fail to take a look at the affected horse's previous history leading up to the event. When the small signs aren't recognized, only the more obvious ones become noted. Prevention would be best.
: I realize you're not saying barefoot horses never founder but you are sort of implying that IF they do and are, it must be from lack of proper barefoot care (neglect). This is not always the case. Going barefoot can actually make a severely foundered horse worse due to lack of coffin bone/boney column support after the laminae fail.
Jan,
I'm not implying any such thing. Neglect is just ONE of many ways a barefoot horse can suffer from founder. Another way to prolong suffering for them is to use treatments which only do more harm than good. You do realize the conventional treatments for founder (concerning barefoot cases) would have you believe that the heels should be raised in order to relieve any pull/pressure from the DDFT right? This leaves the coffin bone tilted or even more so than when it first rotated. This also leads to tenotomies in some cases where the owners can afford the surgery and then shoes and wedges would likely be applied. I don't know of many horses having undergone tenotomies being left without shoes. I'm sure someone has done this though and maybe glued wedges in place. Nothing surprises me any more.
Laminae fail because? What would causes a ground parallel coffin bone to drop away from the toe wall connections? The coffin bone was tilted already and thus stressing the laminar connections already before some trigger came along and blew the stressed connections altogether. Boney support was likely in question to begin with before rotation occurred or became bad enough to get someone's attention. Coffin bones don't need support which causes an improper positioning of it. Examine a truly healthy coffin bone (good luck finding one), and let me know if you think those razor sharp edges were truly formed to support weight in a tilted position.
: My horse is a good example. She was doing relatively well even with questionable shoeing and went downhill within days after the shoes were removed, even though she was receiving frequent barefoot care (at considerable expense) by a noted barefoot trimmer.
Since I was not a part of the treatment of your horse it's rather hard to comment about your horse's case. It can be explained how your horse could go downhill following the removal of the shoes though. Shoes are applied to the feet when it's non-weight bearing so the hoof is contracted (if expands upon weight bearing). The shoes were probably the only thing preventing the coffin bone from moving since the hoof capsule was in a 'fixed' contracted condition. Without the shoes, the hoof could now expand and the damage already present was now a lot more evident. Frequent care IS quite expensive. I've no doubts of that.
: If I didn't love this horse so much and take the time needed to learn how to deal with her problems effectively in a holistic manner, her badly damaged feet (months sans shoes, i.e. no nail holes) could have wound up in one of those bins. Then some student farrier could exclaim, "hey, this horse's foot is very damaged because it did NOT have shoes. My instructor must be right. Those eggbars he just showed us how to apply would have prevented this!" And he/she would be wrong.
: Jan
Hey, no one says these cadavers were unloved. People can love their horses and 'kill' them with kindnesses everyday...a little bit at a time. An example, I have a client with recovering founder horses. They are still teetering on the line before foundering again but atleast they will not rotate so technically, I guess it's improper to suggest they could founder at all. Let's just say they can have inflammation (laminitis) then. It still affects their laminar connections. My trim can only do so much. The owner has to do their part as well. These horses are still carrying excessive amounts of fat because their owner doesn't wish to 'deprive' them from eating anything. Kill them with kindness! It's not my call. I still trim their feet and take the owner's money. They can still move their big fat bodies. Fuss at the owner? Little good it does.
Hindsight is always 20/20 but just what sort of vision do you have? Everyone who looks at a hoof, dead or alive, will have an opinion about it based on what THEY KNOW.
Tree