Posted by Anne (Tree) Coley on July 08, 2003 at 09:01:57:
In Reply to: Re: Eggbars Vs. Backwards shoe? posted by Patty Stiller on July 07, 2003 at 22:19:35:
: It always amazes me when someone sees a foot from a dead horse on which they have NO historyt and assume the shoe causes harm. If a shoe is *improperly* applied then sure it will do harm ,but how does anyone looking at a cadaver hoof that came from hundreds in the scrap bin know why that horse died?
Patty,
It always amazes me how anyone can assume to know how badly a horse is without seeing the horse in person. We're both easily amazed I guess.
I do not assume that all cadavers having shoes still on them died as a result of the shoes. I can only study the conditions before me with each foot. Coroners do this and learn a great deal having little more than a body before them to study. Poor hoof form is obvious. The feet don't lie.
: Did he eventually die from the unresolved hoof problem despite a good sghoeing, did he die because of some serious systemic problems or illness?
Again Patty, poor hoof form is self-evident. Hooves plan an important factor in blood flow throughout the horse's system. Long-term hoof problems take their toll. How many metabolic conditions have hoof problems as their origin? The healthier looking cadaver hooves obviously died from other causes than those with poor hooves.
: Was he perhaps doing better but the owner opted for euthanasia for monetary or emotional reasons? etc etc.
For the truly mangled hooves I feel the owners did the horse a favor if it didn't just die on its own. Perhaps the owners euthanized the horse and the reasons will rest with those horses. It's rare to know the histories of the cadavers when it's a bunch of cadavers provided by renderers and slaughter houses.
: Maybe the foot got in that horrid condition BEFORE the farrier was ever called and the farrier did the best he could with an already made wreck?
This is a possibility for sure. Lord knows I've been called out to help horses who would've benefited from getting help sooner vs later. But, you can often times see multiple nail holes from the resets and gain a bit more insight into how much care was taking place. The quality of care comes in the form the hoof was being maintained in. Most farriers ARE doing the best they know how but the term "Best" is relative to what they KNOW to do.
: Maybe the farrier did a fine job initially,but the owner neglected to call him back for many months and the foot distorted again.
Well this would show in the distances between nail holes for shod horses and growth rings in the bare hooves. How many excuses can horses live with? The dead ones ran out of time but maybe not the human excuses.
: Too many folks look at a dead foot chosen out of a bin because it is horrid ,with no history on how it got that way, and make assumptions..hardly scientific. Patty
And I suppose Forensic medicine has no place in science? Of course it does. Too many folks make assumptions and they aren't all looking at dead feet. Science has its own share of flaws. It depends on the model before the scientist and the controls. Those who study dead feet pulled from a bin of them are allowed to think as they want but it's speculation at best based on what they know of bones, tissues and hoof form to function. There's more to it of course. There's loads to be learned from the dead in order to help the living.
:
: Egg-bar shoes are known to also cause problems too. I've seen more underrun heels and crushed heels thanks to the egg-bar shoe.
: That is because the farrier who applied them did not understand proper hoof preperation,shoe fit,and frog support. (in other words they were mis-aplied). Patty
They are continually being mis-applied also when the owners do not recognize the damages. If their farrier cannot tell and the owners can't the horse just has to suffer until its life is ended or someone else comes along and points out the misapplication of the shoes. So much goes unrecognized.
: I've also found cadavers still wearing heart-bar shoes with obvious attempts being made to correct a terrible founder. The horse lost most of its P3 (coffin bone) in addition to so much bone loss in the P2 and P1 as well. There's no way this horse could've still been standing.
: Of course he was probably not standing or they would not have killed him. And you can tell me there are NEVER cadavers with bare feet, never shod, who died from severe laminitis? . Your statement is a little like saying just because a blue chevy gets in a wreck that only blue chevys ever crash.
: Patty
Not everyone kills a horse for not standing! There are rehabs that cannot stand for quite some time but the horse isn't killed. This particular limb didn't offer a horse much to stand on any more. The joints were deteriorating, bone fragments were emerging from sores in and above the hoof. What a wretched state this horse ended up in. What was the point of having a shoe on it at all? I wish I did know the history of this beast only to know how long it took for such destruction to take place.
Patty, if there are cadavers who were never shod and died from severe laminitis I've yet to find one in a bin. Of the ones I've come across, there were either shoes attached or nail holes still visible with rust stains still remaining on the weigh bearing areas of the walls. I wouldn't dare assume that a barefoot horse couldn't die of severe laminitis without ever wearing a shoe. If the trim applied (or neglect of such a horse/pony) did not address the problem and only made it worse, it's quite likely a death sentence for that animal. They don't all end up in a slaughter house or renderers. Many are quietly buried on the owner's premises or cremated (at a lab).
As for Blue Chevys, yes, they CAN get into wrecks. However, I've seen too many other vehicles wrecked so I couldn't seriously believe only blue Chevys wreck. There are only so many blue chevys available to wreck...some are lucky and some aren't. I don't see the correlation between blue chevys and what I've been talking about (cadaver feet).
Tree