Posted by Rick Burten on September 21, 2003 at 18:06:18:
In Reply to: Re: Sore after trim - it's been a month! - to Jim R posted by Derin Foor on September 21, 2003 at 17:54:16:
: : More background on this situation: this horse had GREAT hooves until this summer. I rode him in a barefoot trim and he could handle anything (15+ mile trail rides). But, when it rained every day and his feet got soft (he lost his calloused soles that I worked so hard to develop), I had shoes put back on. But, they kept coming off the front. His poor hooves were a mess from all the times he had to have the shoes nailed back on - so I opted to not do that anymore for awhile. I knew that we were back to square one with trying to build up the toughness again. When I first started riding him barefoot, it was a slow process, but he NEVER acted this ouchy. So that is why I am concerned about how sensitive he still is after a month.
: : As for riding him - I mounted up when the farrier left and got off within 10 feet when he started limping. He was NOT limping when I brought him up from the pasture, but he sure did afterwards. The limping got MUCH worse as time passed without me riding him at all. Don't think you can blame me for this one (my goodness, you sound like an angry and bitter guy!) I was very sad to lose this farrier as I liked him and trusted him for quite awile.
: : As for the Vet, he was quite reluctant to criticize my farrier. But, I wanted answers and he told me the horse was trimmed too short, was way out of balance and he said he doesn't like to see the frog cut back that much.
: : While I thank you for taking the time to respond to my question, you didn't really address the issue. What I wanted to know was whether a bad trim could cause a horse to still be uncomfortable. I don't pretend to know much about what a farrier does - I tend to trust their expertise. I might add here that I immediately placed a call to my now ex-farrier and left a message telling him my horse was very lame and I needed to talk to him. He didn't call me back until 5 days later while I was out. By then I didn't see any point in talking to him.....
: : deb
: : : : My horse kept losing his shoes this summer (daily rain kept his hooves wet), so a month ago I had my farrier come out (just 2 1/2 weeks after a hot shoeing) to pull the ones still attached and leave him barefoot. The horse was not limping until the farrier drove away and I tried to ride. There was just a hint of lameness (I got right off - no riding). The next day he was worse. Two days later he was so bad that I took him to the vet and he did xrays (looked good) and tested his movement. His conclusion: find a new farrier. He recommended no riding and Bute for a week. Now it has been a month and the horse still hurts when we ride anywhere but grass or sandy arena. I am trying to find a new farrier, but the good ones are not taking new clients!
: : : : Could my horse still be suffering from a bad trim? Or could there be something else going on?
: : : : Thanks for any help, deb
: : : deb,
: : : After reading you're second sentence I would say YOU did more harm by ridding your horse right after the farrier pulled the shoes than the farrier ever coulod have. I would say find a new VET, dosen't sound very knowledgable about horse feet. If you told me this story over the phone I would immediately decline you without hesitation. Now I'll tell you why. The environmental conditions you described will make the horses feet soft because the water is breaking the hoof wall down. Daily rain and water breaks protein down( hoof walls are essentially protein) , this is basic biology which ever you choose(your Vet should have had this in high school). Now that the feet are falling apart and loosing their integrity they are not going to hold the shoe on very well (hoof walls). Since the hoof walls are falling apart would'nt it make sense the soles will be soft as well. Once you remove the only thing that is solid off the foot (shoe), would'nt that be like you taking your shoes off and walking down a dirt road, hurts dosen't it. Now if you did it gradually your feet will adjust and there will be no problem. On the other hand if you go for a mile walk or run I would think your feet would be sore and maybe for some time afterward.
: : : If I were you I would beg your old shoer to come back and I would tip him twenty dollars every time they came out. Don't you or your Vet blame the shoer for a problem YOU caused.
: : : Jim R.
: Deb,
: I would check with the vet to see just how much sole the horse has at this point. It could be that he just doesn't have enough sole for proper circulation (min. 15mm.) If that's the case, whether he's ridden or not, he will remain 'tender'. Keratex Hoof hardner on the soles and walls will probably help and I would give him some time off too. Patty has posted here, before, her protocol about pulling shoes and leaving them barefoot...basically (and this is from memory----please correct me if I am wrong Patty) she pulls the shoes, only rounds the edges of the wall and returns a few weeks later to do a barefoot trim.....I think this would be a good approach next time you pull shoes and leave the horse barefoot.
: If your vet is not typically a "farrier basher", then perhaps he had evidence that the horse was indeed trimmed out of balance and too short....ask him for a farrier referral (most farriers will try to work in someone referred to them by a vet).
: Hope this helps
: Derin
I agree with both Jim and Derin. I think that there was an unfortunate set of circumstances that conspired to cause the problem you now are dealing with.
If, up until this point you have been satisfied with the service and quality of work the farrier provided, then you were hasty in firing him. He may not have returned your phone calls for a lot of reasons. Most likely he was putting in long hours, or was on the road and got back to you as quickly as he could. Regardless, I think he deserved better from you.
As for the horse, right now, I would get him in some styrofoam , keep him in as dry an area as possible, and also use some type of hoof hardner/sole toughner.
Shoes may or may not be an option, but if they are used, the time between resets may have to be shortened due to the condition of the hooves, and environmental concerns.
Rick