Re: Strasser Method Question?/ Navicular

Subject:

Comments:
: Mr. Burten, all I get out of you is name calling so I think you in particular are a waste of my time. If you can direct me to any info that proves Dr. Strasser is wrong than please let me know. So far my own past and present experiences have proven the truth behind Dr. Strassers work. I have gone your way before and lost a beautiful 16yr old mare to founder. She had what I now realize were healthy round feet at 4 when I bought her. You go ahead and continue to use your medieval technology, good luck. : Tracy Raffaele : : : : : : I just started reading some of the other comments regarding Dr. Strasser. I find it interesting how many people pan Dr. Strasser with out doing their own research. : : : : Many of us have done the "research" such as it is. We(I) find it interesting how you and the rest of the acolytes have bought into the Strasser franchise without doing your own research. Strasser's protocol has been repeatedly debunked. Her theories are outdated, erroneous, and when put into practice cause pain, suffering and damage to the horse. Her ability to convince a willing following that hers is the only way, continually places her in the running, and often winning , the Phineas award. : : : And that research is? and I can find it were? To date not a single vet has come up with a valid response to Dr. Strasser's work. I should have used the word education not research. : : As a confirmed True Believer, no educational source or research refuting your leader would ever seem to be accepted as "valid". As this entire subject has been hashed over ad naseum, just do a search of the archives and you will find the answer to your questions. : : : : Every horse I trim has gotten better over time. : : So what? Most here can say the same thing. You think you and the rest of the TBs have stumbled onto something new? Sorry sweetpea, you folks are late comers to the game and haven't got a clue as to the score. : : : : : I have only been trimming 2 years Rick, no failures yet. : : Wow! a whole two years. The vastness of your experience is underwhelming. : : And, long ago, I learned to be wary of claims of 100% success. They are, with some very few exceptions, never true. And you and and the rest of the TBs, are not one of the few exceptions. JMNTBCHO. : : : : :Some have more problems then others and some never seem to miss a beat. : : : : So? even a blind hog finds the occasional acorn. : : : What exactly do you mean by this, that sometimes I get it right and sometimes I don't. I will be the first to admit mistakes. I know that I will continue to learn. : : Sadly, you , by signed contract, can only learn that which your franchise grantor says you can learn. Only she can decide what knowledge you can have. And thats not learning, its brainwashing. : : : : :If people took the time to actually learn they would see the logic behind ALL of it. : : : : Rubbish! The only logic behind the illogical is that it is illogical. : : : Really Rick, have you actually read any of Dr. Strasser's work? : : I've read just about all of it. And more than once. And, BS by any other name still stinks to high heaven and elsewhere. : : : : :I have not found anything that does not make sense. : : : : Try 30 degree hair lines, all coffin bones ground parallel, : : : Ih nature Rick you will not find a single hooved animal that does not have a 30 degree hairline. In physics this is the optimal angle for shock absorption. : : Please cite where you acquired this information. : : : : :With a 30 degree hairline a healthy hoof has a ground parallel coffin bone. : : Pure, unadaultrated Male Bovine Solid Waste Matter. While it is potentially correct that some healthy equine hooves may have a ground parallel coffin bone and a 30 degree hairline, it is not an absolute that ALL equines will fit those parameters, as radiographic studies have repeatedly shown. For some $9,000.00, you have bought the party line. To think otherwise, would be unacceptable to any TB. : : : : : : shoes cause numbness in the feet, all horses can go barefoot all the time, opening cuts to blood, hoof mechanism as defined by Strasser, etc, etc, ad naseum. : : : There is a great deal of proof regarding this. Thermographic pictures show a lack of circulation which make the hoof and lower leg cold. : : Thermography has not been shown to be either accurate or reliable as it is dependant on many factors including, ambient temperature, operator skill, etc. Further, studies have shown that at different times of the day, an equid's limb(s) can and do show different temperature gradients. And this happens even when the individual using the equipement remains the same. Ergo, your assertion is blatently incorrect. But don't let the truth stand in the way of your ongoing ignorance. : : A warm blooded animal should not have cold feet. I haven't watched it in a while but I believe Dr. Pollits video also proves this point. : : Pollit's video proves nothing of the sort. As indicated above, the limbs of the equid, will have varying temperature gradients depending on many influencing factors. : : And, if the Strasser assertion that shoes can transmit temperature gradients into the hoof capsule, then on a hot day, a shod horse standing on hot pavement should show extremely hot feet, thermographically speaking. Doesn't happen. Why? : : : : Or, how about, "I just want you to understand that when I trim your horse using the Strasser method", it could cause your horse to die". Now there's a statement that is sure to instill confidence in horse owners. : : : If a horses organs are so far gone from years of living in un-natural conditions, shoeing, etc. yes the horse may go into organ failure because it cannot handle the increased metabolism required for healing. Please show me ONE healthy horse that was trimmed then dropped dead. : : If the horse is healthy, then first off it shouldn't need the Strasser butchery(not that any horse, regardless of condition ever does) and if the horse is unhealthy, and at risk of death because of the strasser protocol, who in their right mind would apply such a modality? Oh, I get it, you strasserites operate on the principle "The operation was a success but the patient died". ROTFLAMO!! : : : : : : I would like to point out one very important fact. Nailing shoes on a lame horse is the equivilant to buting as circulation is reduced to the point were a horse hooves go numb. : : : : I hear this fallacy made all the time by Strasserites as though it were true.. Yet not once, not ever have they been able to produce one scintella of evidence or research, that supports this ridiculous assertion. And an assertion is all it is. It does not even rise to the level of a hypothesis. : : : : So, perhaps you will be the first strasserite who is able to support, with cites, this logical fallacy. : : : Dr. Pollit's video. When you nail on a shoe you restrict mechanism all together. A certain amount of circulation is required for nerves to fire. : : More Male Bovine Solid Waste Matter. Pollit's video shows nothing of the kind. And if there is no circulation, then not only do the nerves not function, but the foot dies. And, since there are millions of horses wearing shoes who do not have dead feet, your hyperbole is not only ludicrous, it is stupid. : : : : This is why the horse goes sound. If your horse cannot go barefoot it has a problem. Plain and simple. : : : : Male Bovine Excrement! Pure, plain and simple. But I(we) expect no less. Afterall, you have spent a considerable amount of money to buy your piece of the strasser franchise. : : : : :That little 1/4" thick steel rim around the horses hoof cannot possibly protect from everything. Yet shod horses seem to fly over all kinds of terrain. : : : : Ah! the wonders of proper hoofcare through farriery. : : : : : : The sensitve sole (as meg puts it) is not protected buy the shoe. So it is quite obvious that the hoof must be numb. : : : : : The reason you still get "navicular" pain in a shod horse is that there is still circulation above a certain point so the horse can feel that particular area. When you raise the heels you are reducing the circulation further which is why it works for a while. Eventually the higher blood pressure above the hooves wears away even more bone allowing more blood to flow. So the feeling and thus pain returns. : : : : How about navicular pain in barefoot horses? And, while your reasoning sounds good, can you cite any references that support this Strasser Party Line? : : Answer the question, Tracey. : : : : According to you, how does higher blood pressure above the hooves wear away bone? And which bone does it wear away? : : : This is not according to me, bone recedes from pressure. The opening through which the arteries pass in the navicular bone get larger over time. : : Wait a minute. You just said that shoes restrict circulation. If the circulation is restricted then the arteries are carrying less blood, not more, through those openings in the navicular bone. Ergo, there would be no pressure from said arteries on the fossae. So, you can't have it both ways. either there is reduced circulation and no erosion, or more circulation and the potential for erosive action. : : But wait a minute, you just said that shoes cause the circulation to stop or at least be greatly restricted/reduced. Seems you logic and thinking is quite faulty. You don't get to argue both sides of the equation to make your hypothesis work. : : : : Also, regarding your contention that appropriately (my word) raising the heels further reduces circulation, it would seem that this should be relatively easy to ascertain. Have you, any other strasserite, or F. Strasser herself, undertaken this research? If so, what were the results and where are they published? If not, why not? : : : Also visible in Dr. Pollit's video. : : Even squinting really hard, it doesn't appear so. And remember, I used the term "appropriately". : : : : Your contention regarding why the horse still feels pain, is laughable.Compromise the circulation in the hoof and the hoof dies. To date, there have been no reports of living horsess diagnosed with navicular,with dead feet. : : : Actually Rick I have opened up a cadaver hoof and seen that the inside of the coffin bone was becomeing necrotic before the horse died. : : The operant word here is "cadaver". And, since you have not acknowledged a cause of death, your example is worthless. Further, since you have not indicated a cause of the alleged interior necrosis of p3, your example becomes not only worthless, but useless. Especially when used to support your erroneous contentions. : : :This was an obvious case of neglet judging by the toes cracks. : : Obvious to whom? Unless you know and can provide a history for the dead animal in question, your conclusions are inconclusive at best. : : :Circlation is greatly reduce not cut off all together. : : : Lots of people live for a long time with reduced circlation in their limbs due to damage from diabetes. : : You are trying to compare apples to oranges. And, living a long time with reduced circulation....does not mean they get to keep either their legs or feet. In point of fact, many diabetics loose one or more of their lower limbs. And at differing levels, depending on the ravages of the disease, which I might point out is not the result of either wearing shoes or going barefoot. Which further negates your attempt at an analogy. And, I further point out that removing that limb or portion there of, does nothing to stop the disease of diabetes or heal the remainder of the body. Nor does removing a human's shoes or other footwear and trimming his/her toenails, and then leaving said human barefoot, do anything to arrest the progress of the disease. Perhaps you would like to try a different analogy? : : : : : : : To Dave, I have run into a person in my area that claimed to be a Strasser trim. I am the only one in my area, with 2 certified trimmers who travel to the area from out of state. : : : : : Unfortunatley the fraudulant trimmers do more harm than good which is then blamed on Dr. Strasser. : : : : I suppose they are just trying to emulate that which F. Strasser and her dedicated minions are inflicting. : : : : : : In this case the guy obviously did not have good intentions. He has gone to some Martha Olivio seminars. At a Martha O. clinic a client worked on a horse this person was trimming. Martha's comment was that he is not following what she taught him. : : : : : : : If a person is certified their name will be on the Strasser web site. : : : : Hmm. A list of franchise owners. Good. At least now we know who the absolute True Believers and lemmings are. : : : : : : Yep, and very proud of it. Tracy Raffele, SHP 2003 : : Congratulations, you are now afflicted with a disease common to beginners on the hoofcare continuum, "The Arrogance of Ignorance Syndrome". Sadly, you are destined to stay afflicted, so long as you remain a True Believer. : : : : : Tracy : : Rick