Posted by Tracy Raffaele on June 03, 2004 at 11:35:55:
In Reply to: Re: Strasser Method Question?/ Navicular posted by Rick Burten on June 03, 2004 at 06:47:30:
: : I just started reading some of the other comments regarding Dr. Strasser. I find it interesting how many people pan Dr. Strasser with out doing their own research.
: Many of us have done the "research" such as it is. We(I) find it interesting how you and the rest of the acolytes have bought into the Strasser franchise without doing your own research. Strasser's protocol has been repeatedly debunked. Her theories are outdated, erroneous, and when put into practice cause pain, suffering and damage to the horse. Her ability to convince a willing following that hers is the only way, continually places her in the running, and often winning , the Phineas award.
And that research is? and I can find it were? To date not a single vet has come up with a valid response to Dr. Strasser's work. I should have used the word education not research.
: Every horse I trim has gotten better over time.
: Well, I suppose most all of us could say the same thing, if the horse has stayed in our practice long enough.
I have only been trimming 2 years Rick, no failures yet.
: :Some have more problems then others and some never seem to miss a beat.
: So? even a blind hog finds the occasional acorn.
What exactly do you mean by this, that sometimes I get it right and sometimes I don't. I will be the first to admit mistakes. I know that I will continue to learn.
: :If people took the time to actually learn they would see the logic behind ALL of it.
: Rubbish! The only logic behind the illogical is that it is illogical.
Really Rick, have you actually read any of Dr. Strasser's work?
: :I have not found anything that does not make sense.
: Try 30 degree hair lines, all coffin bones ground parallel,
Ih nature Rick you will not find a single hooved animal that does not have a 30 degree hairline. In physics this is the optimal angle for shock absorption. With a 30 degree hairline a healthy hoof has a ground parallel coffin bone.
: shoes cause numbness in the feet, all horses can go barefoot all the time, opening cuts to blood, hoof mechanism as defined by Strasser, etc, etc, ad naseum.
There is a great deal of proof regarding this. Thermographic pictures show a lack of circulation which make the hoof and lower leg cold. A warm blooded animal should not have cold feet. I haven't watched it in a while but I believe Dr. Pollits video also proves this point.
: Or, how about, "I just want you to understand that when I trim your horse using the Strasser method", it could cause your horse to die". Now there's a statement that is sure to instill confidence in horse owners.
If a horses organs are so far gone from years of living in un-natural conditions, shoeing, etc. yes the horse may go into organ failure because it cannot handle the increased metabolism required for healing. Please show me ONE healthy horse that was trimmed then dropped dead.
: I would like to point out one very important fact. Nailing shoes on a lame horse is the equivilant to buting as circulation is reduced to the point were a horse hooves go numb.
: I hear this fallacy made all the time by Strasserites as though it were true.. Yet not once, not ever have they been able to produce one scintella of evidence or research, that supports this ridiculous assertion. And an assertion is all it is. It does not even rise to the level of a hypothesis.
: So, perhaps you will be the first strasserite who is able to support, with cites, this logical fallacy.
Dr. Pollit's video. When you nail on a shoe you restrict mechanism all together. A certain amount of circulation is required for nerves to fire.
: This is why the horse goes sound. If your horse cannot go barefoot it has a problem. Plain and simple.
: Male Bovine Excrement! Pure, plain and simple. But I(we) expect no less. Afterall, you have spent a considerable amount of money to buy your piece of the strasser franchise.
: :That little 1/4" thick steel rim around the horses hoof cannot possibly protect from everything. Yet shod horses seem to fly over all kinds of terrain.
: Ah! the wonders of proper hoofcare through farriery.
The sensitve sole (as meg puts it) is not protected buy the shoe. So it is quite obvious that the hoof must be numb.
: : The reason you still get "navicular" pain in a shod horse is that there is still circulation above a certain point so the horse can feel that particular area. When you raise the heels you are reducing the circulation further which is why it works for a while. Eventually the higher blood pressure above the hooves wears away even more bone allowing more blood to flow. So the feeling and thus pain returns.
: How about navicular pain in barefoot horses? And, while your reasoning sounds good, can you cite any references that support this Strasser Party Line?
: According to you, how does higher blood pressure above the hooves wear away bone? And which bone does it wear away?
This is not according to me, bone recedes from pressure. The opening through which the arteries pass in the navicular bone get larger over time.
: Also, regarding your contention that appropriately (my word) raising the heels further reduces circulation, it would seem that this should be relatively easy to ascertain. Have you, any other strasserite, or F. Strasser herself, undertaken this research? If so, what were the results and where are they published? If not, why not?
Also visible in Dr. Pollit's video.
: Your contention regarding why the horse still feels pain, is laughable.Compromise the circulation in the hoof and the hoof dies. To date, there have been no reports of living horsess diagnosed with navicular,with dead feet.
Actually Rick I have opened up a cadaver hoof and seen that the inside of the coffin bone was becomeing necrotic before the horse died. This was an obvious case of neglet judging by the toes cracks. Circlation is greatly reduce not cut off all together. Lots of people live for a long time with reduced circlation in their limbs due to damage from diabetes.
: : To Dave, I have run into a person in my area that claimed to be a Strasser trim. I am the only one in my area, with 2 certified trimmers who travel to the area from out of state.
: : Unfortunatley the fraudulant trimmers do more harm than good which is then blamed on Dr. Strasser.
: I suppose they are just trying to emulate that which F. Strasser and her dedicated minions are inflicting.
In this case the guy obviously did not have good intentions. He has gone to some Martha Olivio seminars. At a Martha O. clinic a client worked on a horse this person was trimming. Martha's comment was that he is not following what she taught him.
: If a person is certified their name will be on the Strasser web site.
: Hmm. A list of franchise owners. Good. At least now we know who the absolute True Believers and lemmings are.
Yep, and very proud of it. Tracy Raffele, SHP 2003
: : Tracy
: Rick