Re: Improving business

Posted by Balazs Borbely on May 22, 2004 at 20:45:01:

In Reply to: Re: Improving business posted by Frank on June 11, 2003 at 21:47:02:

: : : Paul, in response to your comment that states

: : : ...You don't have to go to school to become a veterinarian, lawyer or doctor. You do have to pass there state exam. This is how they protect their profession.

: : : Typically, you do not QUALIFY to take a state Medical, Vet or Bar (Law) exam for your license unless you have proved eligibility through successful completion of a RECOGNIZED institution's doctoral program. You don't get to take the test until you ARE a doctor of Law, Medicine or Veterinary
: : : Medicine, etc.

: : : ...that's why there are doctors from and schooled in India who COULD PASS the medical testing ...but are serving burgers.

: :
: : And just why do you think that in these cases you are required to attend school? This is how professional groups keep a minimum standard in their profession. If the farrier industry could learn to put professional differences aside and become self regulated as other professions have there would be fewer of the so called fly by night farriers. These may not occur right away but you would see fewer people posing as farriers. How many do you think would be willing to go to mandated CE classes each year?

: : As far as accredited schools goes, name one farrier school that has accreditation by someone other than the owner or their family members? Farrier associations tell farriers to become certified but the associations and the schools can't agree on what should be taught or required for certification. Even the largest association has fewer than 1/2 of all farriers as members and few of them are certified.

: : Paul

: Paul
: I do believe that you are in error when you say that the schools can't decide on what they have to teachand for the students have to know even the BWFA is consistant with that idea but what seems to be the issue is what is the certifcation should be.The schools are pretty teaching from the same book so it would seem that the things taught are the same. The assocations are saying that you need to have certain amount of experince to get the certifcations but the owner of the horse could careless if you were paper through the yingyang as long as the amount of money they have to payout is minual so in order for the system to work first there has to be education of the owners on getting certified farriers then the assocations have to be able to provide proof that the people they certify are compitent after all that they have to enforce it all and that can not be down without the help of the owners then and only then the fly-by nighters would be eliminated but until these things are in place no system could work even the certification in Illinois couldn't work for the same reason. Everyone has to be on the same page or the federal government would have to make it illegal to do your own horse and that certainly happen either so as long as we all try to stay educated and upgrade ourselves aleast we can change the things we can and hopfully others will someday come to terms with the whole concept and the whole idea could work but I for one not embracing the idea that the government should or ever get involved

: Frank
As there is only one horsemanship which is good horsemanship, and that will not change even if people try reinventing the wheel by calling it natural horsemanship or this and that method, claiming rights to intellectual property of ALL horsemen, the same thing applies to farriery. In my understanding farriery is certainly more than horseshoeing or the traditional trade of forging horsehoes. I strongly believe as a horseman and as a farrier as well in one thing: a farrier has to be fully dedicated to the cause of serving horses and owners. A part time farrier should be the exception, of course everybody's life can bring strange situations, when it is the only viable option, but no farrier can develop himself to a level when he could sleep with good conscience about the horses he's done that day in a part time situation. Another question, Paul: if you are willing to sell your back, shoulders. knees and wrists in small fractions, slowly but inevitably, would you or family want you to do that CHEAP? I would be rather surprised.
The argument, that a part timer does not have to pay a big part of regular costs and fees, is somewhat opposing the idea of fair trading to me. Horse owners are willing to spend huge amounts of money on things that are either useless or unnecessary, so I don't see the point of giving them discount on a service which is essential to the well being of the horse.
Farriers should communicate and think about how to protect the prices, their living, and not search for ideologies that could support their bad decisions undercutting others prices inspite reasonable quality of work.
Balazs.

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: : : : Paul, in response to your comment that states : : : : ...You don't have to go to school to become a veterinarian, lawyer or doctor. You do have to pass there state exam. This is how they protect their profession. : : : : Typically, you do not QUALIFY to take a state Medical, Vet or Bar (Law) exam for your license unless you have proved eligibility through successful completion of a RECOGNIZED institution's doctoral program. You don't get to take the test until you ARE a doctor of Law, Medicine or Veterinary : : : : Medicine, etc. : : : : ...that's why there are doctors from and schooled in India who COULD PASS the medical testing ...but are serving burgers. : : : : : : And just why do you think that in these cases you are required to attend school? This is how professional groups keep a minimum standard in their profession. If the farrier industry could learn to put professional differences aside and become self regulated as other professions have there would be fewer of the so called fly by night farriers. These may not occur right away but you would see fewer people posing as farriers. How many do you think would be willing to go to mandated CE classes each year? : : : As far as accredited schools goes, name one farrier school that has accreditation by someone other than the owner or their family members? Farrier associations tell farriers to become certified but the associations and the schools can't agree on what should be taught or required for certification. Even the largest association has fewer than 1/2 of all farriers as members and few of them are certified. : : : Paul : : : Paul : : I do believe that you are in error when you say that the schools can't decide on what they have to teachand for the students have to know even the BWFA is consistant with that idea but what seems to be the issue is what is the certifcation should be.The schools are pretty teaching from the same book so it would seem that the things taught are the same. The assocations are saying that you need to have certain amount of experince to get the certifcations but the owner of the horse could careless if you were paper through the yingyang as long as the amount of money they have to payout is minual so in order for the system to work first there has to be education of the owners on getting certified farriers then the assocations have to be able to provide proof that the people they certify are compitent after all that they have to enforce it all and that can not be down without the help of the owners then and only then the fly-by nighters would be eliminated but until these things are in place no system could work even the certification in Illinois couldn't work for the same reason. Everyone has to be on the same page or the federal government would have to make it illegal to do your own horse and that certainly happen either so as long as we all try to stay educated and upgrade ourselves aleast we can change the things we can and hopfully others will someday come to terms with the whole concept and the whole idea could work but I for one not embracing the idea that the government should or ever get involved : : Frank : As there is only one horsemanship which is good horsemanship, and that will not change even if people try reinventing the wheel by calling it natural horsemanship or this and that method, claiming rights to intellectual property of ALL horsemen, the same thing applies to farriery. In my understanding farriery is certainly more than horseshoeing or the traditional trade of forging horsehoes. I strongly believe as a horseman and as a farrier as well in one thing: a farrier has to be fully dedicated to the cause of serving horses and owners. A part time farrier should be the exception, of course everybody's life can bring strange situations, when it is the only viable option, but no farrier can develop himself to a level when he could sleep with good conscience about the horses he's done that day in a part time situation. Another question, Paul: if you are willing to sell your back, shoulders. knees and wrists in small fractions, slowly but inevitably, would you or family want you to do that CHEAP? I would be rather surprised. : The argument, that a part timer does not have to pay a big part of regular costs and fees, is somewhat opposing the idea of fair trading to me. Horse owners are willing to spend huge amounts of money on things that are either useless or unnecessary, so I don't see the point of giving them discount on a service which is essential to the well being of the horse. : Farriers should communicate and think about how to protect the prices, their living, and not search for ideologies that could support their bad decisions undercutting others prices inspite reasonable quality of work. : Balazs.

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