Posted by Ann Uhazi on April 29, 2002 at 11:01:33:
In Reply to: Re: Stud Chains posted by Ann Uhazi on April 29, 2002 at 10:58:01:
: : : : : : : : : : Just got satelite TV and was watching the horse channel. Some guy on there was working colts and rank horses with a thin bosal type hackamore, I think it was called the "Novel Nose Band". Looked like some kind of wrapped steel bosal that fits very loosely high up on the nose and you give correction by quick tugs/jerks. He claimed that it worked wonders when clipping and shoeing cranky horses. Just wondering if any one else has heard or tried this contraption. Ann
: : : : : : : : : Ann,
: : : : : : : : : Haven't a clue. But any jerks on the head of the horse I myself do not think is correct.
: : : : : : : : : I leave the training to the owners and trainers unless getting paid for it.
: : : : : : : : : As in my post the other day, I talk with the young lady last night and truned her horse down because they were not schooled in standing for the farrier. The risk is not worth it. I just wished I had learn that 20 years sooner.
: : : : : : : : : Just my thinking.
: : : : : : : : : Ray Miller
: : : : : : : : Ray, This hackamore deal didn't look like it was much different than having a stud chain snapped across the horses nose, except it looked a bit kinder and you could ride with it. I agree about the training. I was just wondering if anyone had tried this thing. I wouldn't mind finding out if it would work on agressive horses that I do end up working with. In fact my own horse, who has always gone barefoot, may need a little "correcting" now that I have to put shoes on him. I moved him from twenty acres on hard ground to my new place that sits on the Yuba River bottom lands and is nothing but sand. He was always okay for trims, but seems very adverse to having shoes and got a bit of an attitude! If I could remember what that thing was called I would order one just to see, you never know. Ann
: : : : : : : Ann, From your description this sound like what I know as a "stud halter", with a leather covering. It is usually made of 1/2 or 5/8 solid steel round bar, fits losely around the nose and jaw, and when jerked, rattles around bumping the horses nose and jaw. The idea is to teach the horse not to do anything that causes the painful bumps. It can be effective on tough horses, such as studs, but I cannot imagine shoeing a horse using one. By accident, I learned a method that has worked well for me, and I will describe it. Use a halter with side rings, adjusted a bit high. Get a small rope, 1/4 inch or so, about 3 feet long. Tie one end into the left side ring, then leaving enough slack to put it under the upper lip, run it through the right ring, back across the nose through the left ring again. Then place the rope under the lip and over the gums, pull the slack out across the nose, take a wrap around the left ring, and tie off sith a slip knot. You should now have the rope securely under the lip, across the nose, and tied off. This pulls the halter rings forward, and the rope cannot slip out. It can be adjusted if needed. It is easily done and very effective. Hopefully this will help you, and anyone else who is either working alone, or with an unreliable holder, who is more concerned about the horses comfort than your safety. Good luck, Jack Hammonds
: : : : : : Ann: I use a helper on the tough ones with a "war bridle"- just a 1/2 " soft cord rope about 15 feet long with a small pulley on one end. Same as what Jack explained except the loop goes over the horse's head and then under the top lip. The pulley allows instant relief- great when they setttle down- they will learn to stand quietly because of the relief. Andrea
: : : : :
: : : : : Don't like then either. ever notice when you yank on them they make the horse rear up, even more. There are other ways to school a horse to stand. I feel over the nose or under the chin with a chain is not a good way. And the training should have been done long before the farrier got there.
: : : : : If the horse is headed down hill which I see all the time, you should find the reason out first before jerking on a chain.
: : : : : Just my thinking.
: : : : : Ray Miller
: : : : : Ray , anyone who yanks on a war bridle is not using it correctly. All you need is to gently increase the pressure until you get the horse's attention and then when he settles down you release pressure. Sometimes all I have to use is one finger on the rope to get the horse to mind. Andrea
: : : I agree with Ray. Trust and training have to be there before you get under a horse. I am not talking about the everyday small stuff, I am talking about the types that obviously have an issue with shoeing and trimming. I like to see what I am dealing with before I commit to doing anything. As I aproach the horse I am observing there behavior and I like to lift all four feet, ALL FOUR FEET!!! and see how they react. I can deal with a horse that tests, it is the ones that realy get agressive, angry, nervous or spook that I worry about. Be careful and put safety first. It is the owners responsibility to train there horse to stand for the Farrier. Generaly if you can trim them you can shoe them. Don't loose your temper, if it doesnt go to well the first time reschedule and try to end on a good note. Try to always gain the horses trust and respect. A lot of times the horses are acting up because there is something physicly bothering them, sore knees, stifle, back etc.. all it might take is rest, meds, excercise or just holding there leg up so that there more comfortable.
: : : Good luck and put your safety first, nobody else will.
: : : Phil
: : I agree with Ray about putting a chain under a chin. That is a sure way to make a horse strike. If you don't believe me, just try it. A chain can be used effectively if it is crossed over the nose band, but just to let the horse know it is there. Snatching at it is no good. A lip chain is very effective, regardless of what anyone thinks about it's use. Many horses at the track are shod with one, and they are brought to the paddock with one. Watch the Triple Crown
: : Series and see how many of the best horses have a lip chain applied. It is just to help keep them under better control, not punish. The simple rope under the lip, over the nose, tie off, I described, will not hurt a horse, but it will get his attention. It is also not offensive looking. Andrea, I am on the same page as you, about getting the horse's attention, but do you ever have any owners object to you using the the war bridle? If you are working for real horsemen, I wouldn't think so. The horse-pet owners perhaps. Early in my career, I shod 3 year old stud who was trying to bite me at every chance, while his lady owner did nothing. I got a haywire, and wired his mouth shut as tight as I could, and finished the job. I wasn't asked back, but do you think I cared? Back to the original question by Ann about her horse, and his attitude, I would make sure he had an attidude adjustment, by one of these methods, if he wanted to be difficult without reason. Good luck, Jack Hammonds
:
: Thanks for all the info guys (and gals). I got his back shoes on with just a couple corrections with stud chain over nose and wrapped across halter. I usually put him in the cross ties for trims and sometimes he is good and sometimes he pulls stuff. I had my friend hold him and he tried jerking his foot twice and she firmly let him know that this behavoir wasn't going to cut it and he calmed down. His favorite antic while doing his fronts (alone at cross ties day of first post), is to stand up on the hoof stand when I'm finishing, and paw at me with his other foot. Maybe I should donate him to the circus?
: And Ray, you're right, I did get angry when he wouldn't knock it off. I smacked him a couple of times and then he got a real attitude. I didn't read Jack and Andreas post before I finished him but may try the war bridle if he continues to fuss. Some horses, though well trained to stand, simply want to play around or are not in the mood. Many of these aren't dangerous, just have a small attitude that needs adjustment. If the horse is really mean or dangerous, I am out of there. I won't even try aids first. Thanks again. Ann
PS: I should know better than to think there would be a humane miracle aide out there that you can simply put on and the horse stands like a pro. I knew I never shouldn't have traded that magic wand for this appy horse!