Posted by Phil Armitage on September 17, 2003 at 22:01:04:
In Reply to: Re: ANNE, ONE HOUR to do a trim? posted by Jim R. on September 17, 2003 at 09:24:40:
: : : Denise I do all that and nail on shoes in less time.
: : It isn't a contest about who is the fastest, not to me anyway.
: : You say you are paying attention to detail, why is it more important to remove the smallest amount of sole and not important to protect sensitive struture in the sole and the coffin bone from pedalostietis.
: : Excess sole is just that-it isn't needed-why leave it? And what exactly are you trying to protect the sole from? The ground? Uhmmm, seems feral horses have their hooves in contact with the ground--what's protecting their so-called "sensitive sole"? In cases of laminitis I would add some protection such as padding taped on, or use removable boots. But in a healthy hoof the sole needs no protection.
: :
: : Horses in the wild that geneticly have thin soles or develop a lameness become food and the strong can run away.
: : So you have documented cases of horses in the wild that genetically have thin soles? I'd like to see your documentation on this--how many of these have you studied? I would be willing to bet that most lamenesses in the wild start with an injury, not an internal balance problem within the hoof that would predispose them to lameness like our domestic horses.
: : They do not stand in soft grass and water and have Strasser trimmers tending to there feet with magnifieing glasses.
: : No, but horses in the wild do drink from ponds, rivers, etc and get their feet wet everyday. They don't need any help with trimming because they are quite capable of being self-trimming. No one has intervened and messed with the balance of their feet from day one. They are moving great distances generally over varied terrain from day one. Only when the domestic horse isn't receiving enough movement over the proper terrain do the hooves need help in being maintained.
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: : Domestic horses can be made sound and kept sound by proper trims and protection.
: : If you can't remove the shoes off those 70% of those horses in your practice and they aren't sound, you don't have a sound horse.
: : Taking the slow method will cause other problems because the horse will compensate for lameness and if it compensates to long will develop other problems in there bodys.
: : Taking the slow method does not cause the other problems-the other problems were already there due to (usually) the poor hoof form or balance. You correct the hoof form and you begin to correct the other problems. Long-term problems will usually need adjunct therapy, such as chiro, accupuncture, accupressure, massage, etc.
: : The faster you treat a problem the less likely it will cause other problems. The protocol that Strasser seems like it works becuase the lame horses are kept in very soft and wet enviroments so they will not be foot sore, what does this do to there feet after a year or so.
: : The horses are not purposefully kept in " soft and wet environements". In fact, I would prefer the horses be kept on firm, dry terrain with just the occasional soaking and in an ideal situation to be kept on the terrain they are going to be ridden and worked on.
: : Besides by what you all have been saying it sounds like all your cases are still healing and you have people convinced that they need to keep it up for it to be a success, what a racket.
: : My cases run the spectrum from laminitis and "navicular" to sound healthy hooves. The sound healthy ones are cases that were either sound to begin with or have recovered after having a death sentence due to lameness. Obviously you can't fix laminitis/founder or improper hoof shape overnight, so yes, I have horses in various stages of recovery. Are you saying you have 100% sound horses? Even if you removed the shoes?
: : Denise
: :
: Denise,
: I can't speak for Phil but I can tell you this I have worked on numerous cases where the horse was considered being put down and they are still alive and well today and even wear shoes when needed. It sounds like you are being feed some very misleading information about the farrier industry. I agree with many of your points you have made its nothing new to the farrier industry. Yes, there are some very, very bad farriers out there that cripple and hurt horses from inexperience and lack of knowledge but there are some excellent ones as well. I also know of a few horses that almost had to be put down because of Strasser trimers. The trimmers had little to no experience with horses and mechanically foundered the horse(s)they worked on. I think you need to actually watch a qualified farrier work rather than just have the head of your organization tell you what we do is wrong. I know I would really like to see you trim some of the horses I work on that are sound to see if they could be made 101% (1% over there current status) sound, who knows maybe you could do it. I have to see it with my own eyes and not have someone tell me it can't be done.
: Jim R.
No Denise I do not have documentation that horses in the wild have thin soles, you got me. Darn I should have known better than to get into such a high tech discussion with the experts. Do you have documentation that horses in shoes are all lame, and how many have you studied?
Phil