Re: ANNE, ONE HOUR to do a trim?

Posted by Phil Armitage on September 16, 2003 at 21:06:16:

In Reply to: Re: ANNE, ONE HOUR to do a trim? posted by Jim R. on September 16, 2003 at 11:31:22:

: : : : : Anne,
: : : : : Good lord what are you looking for? Are you including radiographs in this time? Have you ever had a horse radiographed right after you have it trimmed to see if you're even close to the objective? What kind of horses are you working on? Most of the guys and gals that post on these boards work on horses with a job that can't afford to have down time. I'm from an area that horses wear their feet off faster than they can grow it and without shoes riders can't use their horse(s).
: : : : : I will soon get a copy of Strasser's book so I can read it for myself (although I won't be paying for it, I'm into free knowledge). Maybe I will learn something new that will help the horse or make me a better farrier.
: : : : : At any rate the more experience you get the faster you will become. Who knows in twenty years ,if, you're still trimming you might be able to trim a horse in 5-15 minutes. Lets talk after you have trimmed at least 50,000 feet. If you're a free thinking person I bet you will have a opinions that differ from what they are today.

: : : : : Jim R.

: : : : Hi, Jim:

: : : : With horses I have been trimming for a while, whose feet are finally getting healthy (they hold the trim), I can do them in 45 minutes (unless the owner wants to chat alot); anything less than that would be rushing it, and I am not into rushing it. What I do is very specific and I doubt can ever be done in 5 to 15 minutes, even on horses whose feet are totally sound.

: : : : Many of the horses I trim used to have jobs but can't do them anymore because they are lame - even in shoes. Their owners have been told to put them down or that they will never be usable again. Some of them are back to work now; most are still in the rehab process.

: : : : I always talk with the owners about the rehab process and discuss the possibility of down time. Some of the horses I trim never have a sore day. Some are sore after every trim (for anywhere from one day to a week, depending on how much damage is in the hoof/hooves).

: : : : In my part of the country (Florida) the ground is soft and we have an extensive rainy season. The only way horses can wear their hooves naturally is by chipping and breaking. However, the hoofcare specialists from dryer parts with harder ground tell me once the hooves are rehabbed, they are sound on all terrain. Owners are always told their horses will only be sound on terrain they have been conditioned to, so they should not expect a horse who lives on grassy pastures to be sound barefoot on rocky trails or in the mountains. If they want to use their horses on that type of terrain, they need to get creative in the pastures and set up rocky areas the horses will have no choice but to walk over (conditioning can only be done after rehab is complete, though).

: : : : If this sounds like something most of your customers wouldn't go for, that's probably true. I'm not in this to trim 50,000 hooves, only to help the horses whose owners want to go this way. My own horses are doing just fine, and their feet aren't completely healthy yet. My husband's horse (who had lateral coffin bone rotation) finally went sound on pavement, and I am ready to start taking my mare back in the dressage ring.

: : : : I hope you enjoy the big blue book. It does have a lot of info in it. As to me and how I trim, it evolves constantly as I learn from each horse. Part of our yearly recertification consists of learning what Dr. Strasser has learned over the year since we have seen her, and we CSHS are constantly communicating via the internet about what we are finding out in the field.

: : : : Good luck and thanks for the input.

: : : : Anne

: : : Anne, horses that are always on wet soft ground will have wet soft feet and may even develop infections in sensitive tissue which lead to abcesses, the pressure from the abscesses cause pain. I recommend a wide web shoe that is well seated out on the foot side and use leather pads with medicated pine tar and oakum. Reshoe them every six weeks there feet will be much healthier and able to stand up to hard ground. Try it, I think alot of the horses in your care will be sound and your customers will be happy. In alot of cases this method will improve the hoof, sole and frog quality and they may be able to go barefoot once there feet are better.

: : : Phil

: : My horses live on soft grassy pastures, which have been soaked daily for most of the summer, and they eat twice a day standing in soaking pools to assure they get immersed in water over the coronet for at least 15 minutes per day (if I had a pond or stream on my property, that would be unnecessary). Their hooves are hard and flexible, and both are sound on pavement and on the trails here in Florida. I have not attempted to condition them for rocks because I don't ride them on rocks, and I also have a rescued club-footed and foundered horse who is in the middle of rehab and it would not be fair to her to put rock down in the pasture.

: : As far as movement goes, my mare has never had a lame day and has always been considered a lovely mover. I did not come to this method through lame horses. The lightness and joy of movement she displays now is something I would never have known was possible (and therefor would not have missed it) if I had not taken this path. It was an unexpected bonus. Several of my customers who have gaited horses tell me their horses no longer have to be encouraged to take up their smooth gaits. Oh yes, my mare (who has MFT blood) now foxtrots easily as well as does her walk, trot and canter.

: : I have no doubt at all that your methods do exactly what you say they do -- I've been there, on the customer end -- but there is a price to be paid in terms of hoof and overall health of the horse. I don't go looking for customers; they come looking for me, after their horses have told them they require something different in the way of lifestyle and hoofcare. As I have said before, there is plenty of room out there for everyone.

: : Anne

: I doubt anyone who has been in business long has to look for customers. I had to quit accepting new clientle because I couldn't keep up with new ones being reffered to me. I'm sure the same story would be echoed by any of the others who post here as well.

: Jim R.

Anne even a blind squirl can eventualy find a nut.

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: : : : : : Anne, : : : : : : Good lord what are you looking for? Are you including radiographs in this time? Have you ever had a horse radiographed right after you have it trimmed to see if you're even close to the objective? What kind of horses are you working on? Most of the guys and gals that post on these boards work on horses with a job that can't afford to have down time. I'm from an area that horses wear their feet off faster than they can grow it and without shoes riders can't use their horse(s). : : : : : : I will soon get a copy of Strasser's book so I can read it for myself (although I won't be paying for it, I'm into free knowledge). Maybe I will learn something new that will help the horse or make me a better farrier. : : : : : : At any rate the more experience you get the faster you will become. Who knows in twenty years ,if, you're still trimming you might be able to trim a horse in 5-15 minutes. Lets talk after you have trimmed at least 50,000 feet. If you're a free thinking person I bet you will have a opinions that differ from what they are today. : : : : : : Jim R. : : : : : Hi, Jim: : : : : : With horses I have been trimming for a while, whose feet are finally getting healthy (they hold the trim), I can do them in 45 minutes (unless the owner wants to chat alot); anything less than that would be rushing it, and I am not into rushing it. What I do is very specific and I doubt can ever be done in 5 to 15 minutes, even on horses whose feet are totally sound. : : : : : Many of the horses I trim used to have jobs but can't do them anymore because they are lame - even in shoes. Their owners have been told to put them down or that they will never be usable again. Some of them are back to work now; most are still in the rehab process. : : : : : I always talk with the owners about the rehab process and discuss the possibility of down time. Some of the horses I trim never have a sore day. Some are sore after every trim (for anywhere from one day to a week, depending on how much damage is in the hoof/hooves). : : : : : In my part of the country (Florida) the ground is soft and we have an extensive rainy season. The only way horses can wear their hooves naturally is by chipping and breaking. However, the hoofcare specialists from dryer parts with harder ground tell me once the hooves are rehabbed, they are sound on all terrain. Owners are always told their horses will only be sound on terrain they have been conditioned to, so they should not expect a horse who lives on grassy pastures to be sound barefoot on rocky trails or in the mountains. If they want to use their horses on that type of terrain, they need to get creative in the pastures and set up rocky areas the horses will have no choice but to walk over (conditioning can only be done after rehab is complete, though). : : : : : If this sounds like something most of your customers wouldn't go for, that's probably true. I'm not in this to trim 50,000 hooves, only to help the horses whose owners want to go this way. My own horses are doing just fine, and their feet aren't completely healthy yet. My husband's horse (who had lateral coffin bone rotation) finally went sound on pavement, and I am ready to start taking my mare back in the dressage ring. : : : : : I hope you enjoy the big blue book. It does have a lot of info in it. As to me and how I trim, it evolves constantly as I learn from each horse. Part of our yearly recertification consists of learning what Dr. Strasser has learned over the year since we have seen her, and we CSHS are constantly communicating via the internet about what we are finding out in the field. : : : : : Good luck and thanks for the input. : : : : : Anne : : : : Anne, horses that are always on wet soft ground will have wet soft feet and may even develop infections in sensitive tissue which lead to abcesses, the pressure from the abscesses cause pain. I recommend a wide web shoe that is well seated out on the foot side and use leather pads with medicated pine tar and oakum. Reshoe them every six weeks there feet will be much healthier and able to stand up to hard ground. Try it, I think alot of the horses in your care will be sound and your customers will be happy. In alot of cases this method will improve the hoof, sole and frog quality and they may be able to go barefoot once there feet are better. : : : : Phil : : : My horses live on soft grassy pastures, which have been soaked daily for most of the summer, and they eat twice a day standing in soaking pools to assure they get immersed in water over the coronet for at least 15 minutes per day (if I had a pond or stream on my property, that would be unnecessary). Their hooves are hard and flexible, and both are sound on pavement and on the trails here in Florida. I have not attempted to condition them for rocks because I don't ride them on rocks, and I also have a rescued club-footed and foundered horse who is in the middle of rehab and it would not be fair to her to put rock down in the pasture. : : : As far as movement goes, my mare has never had a lame day and has always been considered a lovely mover. I did not come to this method through lame horses. The lightness and joy of movement she displays now is something I would never have known was possible (and therefor would not have missed it) if I had not taken this path. It was an unexpected bonus. Several of my customers who have gaited horses tell me their horses no longer have to be encouraged to take up their smooth gaits. Oh yes, my mare (who has MFT blood) now foxtrots easily as well as does her walk, trot and canter. : : : I have no doubt at all that your methods do exactly what you say they do -- I've been there, on the customer end -- but there is a price to be paid in terms of hoof and overall health of the horse. I don't go looking for customers; they come looking for me, after their horses have told them they require something different in the way of lifestyle and hoofcare. As I have said before, there is plenty of room out there for everyone. : : : Anne : : I doubt anyone who has been in business long has to look for customers. I had to quit accepting new clientle because I couldn't keep up with new ones being reffered to me. I'm sure the same story would be echoed by any of the others who post here as well. : : Jim R. : Anne even a blind squirl can eventualy find a nut.

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